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Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

bmj.com

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Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#161

Post by masomenos »

sofal wrote: post #144
unoti wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it doesn't hurt when you do body weight squats with zero weight, then you can make it not hurt when you do heavier weights. The trick is to start with body weight squats, or an empty bar, and build slowly. At every step, keeping proper form. Adding only 5 lbs each workout. So many people make the exact claim you're making, without actually going through the painstaking process of starting from no weight on the bar…

I can do body squats fine (lots of popping, though). I've worked up in weight (though not quite from empty). One week I'll be able to do semi-heavy squats (not even my bodyweight) with no problems and then the next two weeks I can't even add much more than the bar before the knife-in-the-knee. Both knees have the issue, and not simultaneously. The physical therapist says I'm a bit pronated, so I try to account for th…

I've found, from painful experience, that most physical therapists aren't particularly oriented towards strength training.

If you can find an FMS certified strength trainer, there's a good chance they could help diagnose your situation. http://www.functionalmovement.com

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#162

Post by myelin »

Shivetya wrote: post #157
drexel wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe (book and author pretty much universally lauded by the strength training community) is also a great starting point. Beginners can often become overwhelmed by all the differing viewpoints and training methods presented to them when researching strength training but (besides avoiding injury by maintaining proper form and generally listening to your body to allow sufficient…

Looking for recommendations to add to my home gym, which currently only consists of an elliptical, mat, pull up bar, push up grips, a couple of exercise balls, 3 and 5lb barbells. What is safe to have at home? I want to avoid a resistance machine or similar, mostly because they look ghastly, and secondly seeing so many on CL leads to believe they are more hype than health.

Kettlebells are compact, safe-ish, and pretty fun. I regularly work out with barbells now at the gym (roughly following Starting Strength), but before I started that, I spent a lot of time swinging a 35 lb kettlebell at home, which firmed up my back and shoulder muscles a lot. I recently added 20 lb and 60 lb kettlebells to the set, as 35 lb isn't a challenge to swing, but I can't yet consistently control it with one arm above my head.

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#163

Post by stfu »

ignostic wrote: post #126
tokenadult wrote: post #65

The most statistically astute comment posted here so far is the top-level comment by micro_cam https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5493772 pointing out that the study design here doesn't involve random assignment to strength training of any kind, but rather just observation of the study population over time. Sure, it's a good idea to be stronger rather than weaker. Moreover, it is plausible that exercises that tend…

Criticism regarding association, while valid, is largely irrelevant. You need to understand that a clinical trial on this matter is nearly impossible. 1) Imagine the cost of holding a clinical trial over 20 years. 2) Imagine the difficulty of trying to get people to adhere to a workout routine for 20 years! 3) Given what we already know, it's probably unethical to tell a control group not to exercise or build signifi…

But doesn't that make a "study" like this just a sugarcoated lie?

Arguing that something is true because it is too difficult to research the subject properly seems just wrong on so many levels.

I find research ideologies like this at its very core highly dishonest. Sure, people who are really into the subject and methodology understand a study's limitations. But all it does is leading on the media to hype one week the story "A makes you live longer" and another month later "A makes you die faster".

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#164

Post by hodr »

ellyagg wrote: post #136
micro_cam wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big issue is sub populations. I work on similar large studies including genomic data and it is quite frequent to see associations of the form "central americans have a lower rate of disease x" and "central americans have a higher rait of factor y." This produces a statistical association but, especially with genomic factors, factor y can just be something that randomly identifies the group. Similarly in this data…

There are extremely good reasons, aside from this study, to think increased strength would improve life expectancy.

You are of course talking about monkey bar fighting over a pit of snakes, right?

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#165

Post by JPKab »

Shivetya wrote: post #157
drexel wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe (book and author pretty much universally lauded by the strength training community) is also a great starting point. Beginners can often become overwhelmed by all the differing viewpoints and training methods presented to them when researching strength training but (besides avoiding injury by maintaining proper form and generally listening to your body to allow sufficient…

Looking for recommendations to add to my home gym, which currently only consists of an elliptical, mat, pull up bar, push up grips, a couple of exercise balls, 3 and 5lb barbells. What is safe to have at home? I want to avoid a resistance machine or similar, mostly because they look ghastly, and secondly seeing so many on CL leads to believe they are more hype than health.

Get what is called a "squat cage" (you can build one yourself if you don't like the options to purchase.) along with an Olympic bar (it is a bar weighted to 45 lbs. along with Olympic weights.

You can do squats safely without a spotter by using a squat cage. Also, when you place a bench inside of the cage, you can use catch bars to safely bench press without a spotter (the safety bars will catch the bar at chest level when you can't lift it due to exhaustion)

Along with pull ups, bench press, squat, and deadlift are the best exercises for strength. An olympic bar will let you do both deadlift and squat with just a rack.

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#166

Post by matwood »

EA wrote: post #92

"We love CrossFit. It is great job security." - my physical therapist edit: my point being that from the PT's POV, the more intense the strength training, the more likely a serious injury will occur during training.

the more intense the strength training

Stop right there. Please don't conflate the scamish, lets forget form and get our clients hurt XFitters with actual strength training (which I've never seen an XFitter do). XFit is great that it excites some people who would not normally work out, but its execution leaves a lot to be desired.

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#167

Post by alecdibble »

micro_cam wrote: post #150
ellyagg wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are extremely good reasons, aside from this study, to think increased strength would improve life expectancy.

This is also true for endurance running, wine, coffee, beer, olive oil, eating lots of meat, not eating lots of meat etc.

The first example I can understand, but I am not following you with the rest.

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#168

Post by richardlblair »

richardlblair wrote: post #3

I've never been one for strength training. I just like to run really hard for a short period of time... Guess I will need to change that.

The feedback from this comment has been amazing. You are all awesome.

Thanks for sharing your sprinting knowledge.

My workout usually includes a 5 minute warm up period, followed by about 15 minutes of running as fast as I can that day. From there I usually hit the bike for a cool down and to burn extra calories.

I never did this on purpose. I did it because I love the feeling of having your heart in your throat. Apparently I am not the only one.

Thanks again!

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#170

Post by micro_cam »

alecdibble wrote: post #167
micro_cam wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also true for endurance running, wine, coffee, beer, olive oil, eating lots of meat, not eating lots of meat etc.

The first example I can understand, but I am not following you with the rest.

They are all things that have been shown to extend lifespan in various studies in the past few years. Some of these studies were observational like this, some where done by giving mice ridiculous doses etc but they all got picked up by the media.

Some of these results are probably valid but if you want to scientifically extend your life you need to do so with statistical rigor.

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