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Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

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Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#131

Post by thinkr »

archon wrote: post #106
john_b wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like software development, fitness has many methods and plenty of adherents that will swear by each one. Unlike software, however, human physiology doesn't change very quickly. Generally, simpler is better. In general, you should mix cardio work with lifting heavy things. The ratio will depend on your goals, as will the kinds of lifting you do. All things being equal, exercises that involve more muscle groups and lar…

> If you have weak joints or other physical constraints, machines can be a good place to start, as they will provide you some degree of support and help with your form. This is one of the main reasons I've stuck with the machines. I have a rotator cuff issue in my left arm that makes that arm very unstable. Lifting heavy things with that arm without any support makes me very nervous, even after doing PT exercises for…

I would just like to add that although machines have their place and are great at helping beginners learn certain movements and build up strength, I would advise against using them longterm.

The reason for this is because many machines have a set path and range of motion. Because not everyone's body is made the same, this can cause problems down the line since the movements are not natural. You are also recruiting less of the smaller muscles in your body that help with stability and balance, while only developing the larger/dominant muscles. I believe that to truly be strong you must train all your muscles to work effectively as one system.

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#132

Post by dalys »

I'd like to point out that when looking only at persons aged 25, the strongest (upper) third group did NOT have the lowest death rate in this study. Instead it was the "middle" group in both cases. Admittedly with not much of a difference from the upper group. And again, this study did not claim causation between strength and mortality, but association.

Although if we just play with the thought and assume a causation between strength and mortality and if you are under 60 years of age or have a BMI over 25 and you want to minimize your mortality rate, your one-repetition maximum (1RM) strength goals in a lifting weight / body weight ratio would be x:

  Bench press: 0.7

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#134

Post by nosequel »

3327 wrote: post #80
nosequel wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice job, no scientific evidence, but your "friend" had a heart attack. Just pure amazing post my friend. Oh, so I don't fall into the same trap, here are scientific studies in favor of Whey protein: http://examine.com/supplements/Whey+Protein/#main_clinical_r... TLDR - http://s3.roosterteeth.com/images/Ataxx50e4c5160c877.jpg

Sorry, but this study is a joke. If you think this is a study that validates your belief go ahead. But I will take any seasoned athlete's take on something than a half assed study funded by who knows who. These things take years to prove and large studies over long periods of time. IF you want to justify your own whey protein habits with this thats just you. > my 2 cents means my two cents, you take it as you will. H…

What do you mean by "this" study? I linked to page that linked to tons of studies, all with ratings on how well they did each study.

I think you need to figure out how to internet man, oh and s/of/off/ it is driving me nuts how ridiculous "get of whey" sounds.

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#136

Post by ellyagg »

micro_cam wrote: post #130
ellyagg wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you list some things that weren't controlled for that you think would lead to both increased one rep max and longer life expectancy? As Edward Tufte says, "Correlation is not causation but it sure is a hint." That increased strength improves life expectancy should be the null hypothesis. At least at the one end, extreme frailty is a common eye test for poor health. Since this isn't a scientific journal here, but…

The big issue is sub populations. I work on similar large studies including genomic data and it is quite frequent to see associations of the form "central americans have a lower rate of disease x" and "central americans have a higher rait of factor y." This produces a statistical association but, especially with genomic factors, factor y can just be something that randomly identifies the group. Similarly in this data…

There are extremely good reasons, aside from this study, to think increased strength would improve life expectancy.

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#137

Post by MortenK »

archon wrote: post #61
drexel wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe (book and author pretty much universally lauded by the strength training community) is also a great starting point. Beginners can often become overwhelmed by all the differing viewpoints and training methods presented to them when researching strength training but (besides avoiding injury by maintaining proper form and generally listening to your body to allow sufficient…

> Beginners can often become overwhelmed by all the differing viewpoints Yeah, I'm in this position. I've been using the machines at my gym (more for variety than any other reason) and when I started looking into strength training, I was swamped with competing methods, many of which instantly sent up red flags in my brain reading "SCAM". It's difficult for someone from outside the fitness world (me) to judge whether…

Try this article out: http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/everything-you-know-abou...

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#138

Post by stinos »

Confusion wrote: post #60
stinos wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but is it because they are stronger, or because they have a healthier life in general, filled with more exercise than average? I mean, is the effect the same for 100m runners (=strength) and 10000m runners (=less pure strength)?

They corrected for "age, physical activity, smoking, alcohol intake, body mass index, baseline medical conditions, and family history of cardiovascular disease" and cardiorespiratory fitness.

I don't understand how they do that (never been into statistics); suppose two persons are alike for the above factors, and they do the same amount of training, but one trains for muscle strength and the other to be able to do longer runs. Does this study conclude then that the first one is likely to outlive the second one?

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#139

Post by Thrymr »

unoti wrote: post #4

I've been doing strength training (the program is called Stronglifts 5x5[1]) with freeweights for about 9 months now. I just turned 44, and I've never felt better, and I'm stronger now than I have ever been. The program I use describes 3 simple exercises to do 3 times a week, and each workout takes me 30-45 minutes. Very little equipment is needed. It's hard to find good information about this on the net that covers…

As long as everyone's throwing in their experiences:

I'm a fan of body weight exercises; no equipment needed (beyond things like a door or a table). I started with Mark Lauren's book [0], which has a set of 10 week programs and lots of exercises to choose from. I could probably plan my own program now, but it was good to have a start to learn exercises beyond the basic push ups and sit ups (although you can get along way with those), particularly (for me) lower body ones like squats and lunges.

[0] http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Your-Own-Gym/dp/0345528581

Re: Association between muscular strength and mortality in men (2008) [pdf]

#140

Post by stouset »

archon wrote: post #61
drexel wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe (book and author pretty much universally lauded by the strength training community) is also a great starting point. Beginners can often become overwhelmed by all the differing viewpoints and training methods presented to them when researching strength training but (besides avoiding injury by maintaining proper form and generally listening to your body to allow sufficient…

> Beginners can often become overwhelmed by all the differing viewpoints Yeah, I'm in this position. I've been using the machines at my gym (more for variety than any other reason) and when I started looking into strength training, I was swamped with competing methods, many of which instantly sent up red flags in my brain reading "SCAM". It's difficult for someone from outside the fitness world (me) to judge whether…

The basic approach to getting strong hasn't changed over the past several hundred years, despite Nautilus' and personal trainers' best attempts.

Lift heavy shit over your head. Put it down. Repeat.

To this end, barbell training is pretty much the gold standard in gaining strength. Machines are suboptimal in that they stress muscles in isolation from one-another, and remove the need for compound, coordinated muscle contractions that occur in literally every situation where you would want actual strength. Proper barbell training with compound lifts (squats, deadlifts, overhead press) trains whole groups of muscles at once, including the crucially-important stabilizers which are often neglected in machine-based training.

Starting Strength and Stronglifts are two extremely similar barbell training programs with a very large number of success stories. I've been doing the Stronglifts routine for three months, and am transitioning into Starting Strength as I make my way through the extremely thorough book (which goes into extremely helpful detail about performing the lifts with correct technique). In three months, my squat is now 195lb, deadlifts are 235lb, overhead press at 90lb, bench at 125lb, and barbell rows (which I'm phasing out in favor of power cleans) at 125lb. And I continue to add weight almost every single time I go out.

The numbers aren't super impressive by themselves, but for only three months from having starting at the weight of the empty bar (45lb), I'm seriously thrilled.

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