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Are you an underpaid developer?

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Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#111

Post by coolsunglasses »

hnwh wrote: post #98
coolsunglasses wrote: post #7

SV here as well, independent contractor. 190k a year, ~6 years of experience, was making ~120k 3 years ago, ~40k a year 4 years ago. Contracts are remote, so I could leave but choose not to for various reasons. Starting a product and services company soon for developers (the customers) based on the schleps I've encountered. Just need to wrap up the current contract...

I'm in a similar situation to yours with similar numbers now. Just curious, what technology are you using? I'm on Rails, outside the valley, but my clients are inside. Ironically enough, 2 years ago I was working for $500/week, and working twice as hard as I am now

Current contract is 80% PHP. I usually prefer to stick with Python, Clojure, and Go. Most of my past work has been Python (including when I was CTO at a funded startup).

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#112

Post by Shorel »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #20

I'm depressed looking at those figures now. I'm not in the US, but still... As a developer who works both on backend and frontend, let alone sysadmin work, I'm not making 1/3 of that. I should look into working with US contractors.

I'm not making 1/5 of that.

We, who live in other countries, are cheap.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#113

Post by nilkn »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #75
ashray wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just trying to understand but what does that 190k look like post tax in the valley?

I generally do my finances month to month, soooo: $16,000 per month $11,500 left after federal and social. ~$10,000 left after California takes its pound of flesh $1100 for rent (I am frugal and live with a roommate), utilities, cellphone $170/month for health insurance, $25 a month for motorcycle insurance Rounding monthly spending up to $2k. Roughly $8000 left over at the end of each month, meaning I stack up about…

Are you able to have a decent place for $1100/month in rent + utilities? That just sounds awfully low to me even with a roommate. I could see swinging that if you didn't spend much time in your apartment, but it sounds like you do a lot of work there. I'm impressed, nonetheless.

I do think your comparison would have been a little better, though, if you had assumed the second programmer was single as well. Also, a salaried engineer at, say, Google, is going to get a lot more than $90k/year.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#114

Post by baddox »

ttrreeww wrote: post #105
baddox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make significantly less than $100k in San Francisco and net significantly more than $4200 a month. I don't have a retirement plan, but I doubt that would be enough to cover the difference.

IF you make less than 100k in SF, you are doing something really wrong...

Thanks for the advice.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#115

Post by coolsunglasses »

nilkn wrote: post #113
coolsunglasses wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally do my finances month to month, soooo: $16,000 per month $11,500 left after federal and social. ~$10,000 left after California takes its pound of flesh $1100 for rent (I am frugal and live with a roommate), utilities, cellphone $170/month for health insurance, $25 a month for motorcycle insurance Rounding monthly spending up to $2k. Roughly $8000 left over at the end of each month, meaning I stack up about…

Are you able to have a decent place for $1100/month in rent + utilities? That just sounds awfully low to me even with a roommate. I could see swinging that if you didn't spend much time in your apartment, but it sounds like you do a lot of work there. I'm impressed, nonetheless. I do think your comparison would have been a little better, though, if you had assumed the second programmer was single as well. Also, a sal…

Second comparison's health insurance for the family was too low and I was using the salary a lot of startups pay around here.

I like my apartment. We're really lucky with this place. We pay month to month for this two bedroom in Mountain View. Slightly higher rent wouldn't really change the equation though.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#116

Post by jwatte »

Evbn wrote: post #63
sharkweek wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in Seattle, where housing prices are getting pretty ridiculous, the running joke is "at least we're not San Francisco" I love the bay area, but you're right, it's pretty deceptive to look at a dev salary in SF at 100k and compare it to a dev's salary in the rust belt.

Mortgages are so cheap now, though, that housing costs so much less per month than it did 7 years ago.

All that does is driving up home prices. 1600 sqft 4 bedrooms in cheap cities (san mateo, redwood city) are inching towards a million. If you want 2500 sqft in a walkable city with amenities, expect to pay closer to two million!

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#117

Post by zerr »

e12e wrote: post #92
zerr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I guess you adjust compensations according to the remote place, right? So someone in East Europe can't hope for e.g. Texas level salaries? (Not to speak about Silicon Valley) And by adjusting, I mean not by living costs, but according to average salaries in some particular place. This is worth mentioning, because there are places where people are used to low wages, but living costs are on par or even more expensi…

I don't see why you would adjust compensation. If you do the work to the standard required, you get compensated by as much as it makes sense to compensate you - ie: some fraction of the value you generate for Mozilla? If you could get the work done for USD 1000$ a month, why would you pay anyone more? If someone lives in a low cost country, why would you want to alienate them from your team by paying them significant…

Just to correct you a bit, I was talking about a "low wages country", which is not necessary a "low cost country".

And yes, some companies (including Big Co's) do this - adjust salaries according to local low wages. Since OP refused to answer, I suppose Mozilla does this as well.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#118

Post by Guvante »

Evbn wrote: post #65
Guvante wrote: post #49

One thing this forgets to mention is that you can't compare freelance and employee direct like that. First you have to consider taxes, as a contractor they don't cover half your social security, so about 7%. Next you have to consider healthcare, varies but often 4% or more. Stock options and 401k can add 10% if you are at the right place. 3 weeks vacation is another 6%. So benefits are about 25% of your paycheck (thi…

4%? Wow. My employee health insurance is $10k for 1 insured, $20k for family, per year. I would love that to be close to 4%. Also, employers often pay office rent for employees. And freelancers spend unpaid time doing marketing/sales to get gigs.

Similar for me, but wasn't sure how common it was.
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