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Are you an underpaid developer?

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Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#91

Post by runT1ME »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #7

SV here as well, independent contractor. 190k a year, ~6 years of experience, was making ~120k 3 years ago, ~40k a year 4 years ago. Contracts are remote, so I could leave but choose not to for various reasons. Starting a product and services company soon for developers (the customers) based on the schleps I've encountered. Just need to wrap up the current contract...

As a contractor though, you kind of need to specify how many hours you work on average. I know some who make close to what you make but are killing themselves every week. Know plenty making much less, but work an easy 20hrs. Can you go into more detail on both your schedule and what tech you use? How you market yourself? 190 is quite a good number, so congratulations. Many of us could learn from you

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#92

Post by e12e »

zerr wrote: post #89
cpeterso wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla hires remote developers from all over the world. Working remotely is "business as usual", not the exception, for most teams. Plus, Mozilla has offices in about a dozen cities in (I think) 9 countries. http://careers.mozilla.org/en-US/

But I guess you adjust compensations according to the remote place, right? So someone in East Europe can't hope for e.g. Texas level salaries? (Not to speak about Silicon Valley) And by adjusting, I mean not by living costs, but according to average salaries in some particular place. This is worth mentioning, because there are places where people are used to low wages, but living costs are on par or even more expensi…

I don't see why you would adjust compensation. If you do the work to the standard required, you get compensated by as much as it makes sense to compensate you - ie: some fraction of the value you generate for Mozilla?

If you could get the work done for USD 1000$ a month, why would you pay anyone more? If someone lives in a low cost country, why would you want to alienate them from your team by paying them significantly less?

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#93

Post by csdreamer7 »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #76
csdreamer7 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any proof? Stories to link to?

I don't feel particularly compelled to prove anything to anybody, but here's an anecdote: I had to stop scanning my client checks using my bank's mobile app because I exceeded the $12k per month limit they instituted. Now I have to take my checks to the bank like a prole. Edit: Since I know HN's humor parser is broken, the "prole" thing was a bit of humor. I grew up very poor and have memories of waiting in line at t…

It's the internet, a little bit of scepticism is my first gut instinct.

I have a question if you wouldn't mind answering. What did you do to find new (well paying) clients and why?

P.S. I had to look up wikipedia for the definition of prole.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#94

Post by fn »

tunesmith wrote: post #8

I'm a bit higher than average for freelance hourly. I'm thinking about getting more into "charging by value" (as opposed to hourly) because I get a lot of resistance to raising my rate even as I get faster - but I'm not really certain how to do this since I tend to have long-term relationships with my clients and my work generally doesn't tend to have clear start/finish boundaries. Curious to hear if anyone has figur…

I too am in the same situation and wondering how to move more into "charging by value", when I am also experiencing that most work doesn't have boundaries.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#95

Post by coolsunglasses »

runT1ME wrote: post #91
coolsunglasses wrote: post #7

SV here as well, independent contractor. 190k a year, ~6 years of experience, was making ~120k 3 years ago, ~40k a year 4 years ago. Contracts are remote, so I could leave but choose not to for various reasons. Starting a product and services company soon for developers (the customers) based on the schleps I've encountered. Just need to wrap up the current contract...

As a contractor though, you kind of need to specify how many hours you work on average. I know some who make close to what you make but are killing themselves every week. Know plenty making much less, but work an easy 20hrs. Can you go into more detail on both your schedule and what tech you use? How you market yourself? 190 is quite a good number, so congratulations. Many of us could learn from you

I'm not killing myself for the contract income, but the effort to get the product stuff rolling might do me in.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#96

Post by jrs235 »

yekko wrote: post #42
bostonthrowaway wrote: post #27

Posting this on a throwaway account, but I would like some feedback. I'm currently making $60k in Boston as a front-end developer with just over a year of working experience. I've wondered for a while whether I'm underpaid, but I am getting a lot of experience, so I figure it evens out. I mostly wonder what I should ask for when I start my next job after I pass the hallowed "two years experience" mark, and whether I…

Dude, you don't ask for a raise. You need to know your worth and go grab it. Either at the current company, or elsewhere.

Light bulb just went off in my head...

"Don't ask for a raise..."

From a psychology point this is dead on. NEVER ASK FOR A RAISE.

Instead (know your worth) and show your superior(s) that you are under compensated.

When you ask for a raise you're put in a place to justify it and the burden immediately falls on you. If you show that you're under compensated, your superior(s) will have the burden to show you why you're wrong, thus they will have to justify your salary. Granted they may pull the typical "there's no money in the budget" bull crap. But then at least you've gotten past step one... letting them know you expect more. If you choose to stick it out, only follow the dangling carrot of promises for a year tops. If you are important (or rather if they value you), they'll find the compensation.

Note: show you're under compensated, not under paid. People tend to get hung up on the money. In fact your superior(s) will probably assume you are talking $$$. If they get defensive you can redirect them pointing out more vacation or other perks would do. You have a better shot of getting them.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#97

Post by hostyle »

kaeawc wrote: post #84

I'm probably underpaid. 3 years experience, currently @ 90k. Too happy with the current situation to care enough, and not really in it for the money.

i think you have it pretty good :) 15 years experience here and i'm on the equivalent of 44k USD (small city in europe). i'm not happy with it, but it pays the bills and i have some money left over to have fun now and then. no pension included. no health insurance. i don't have a network and the only jobs going here are all very short contracts, so i'll stick with it while i can.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#98

Post by hnwh »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #7

SV here as well, independent contractor. 190k a year, ~6 years of experience, was making ~120k 3 years ago, ~40k a year 4 years ago. Contracts are remote, so I could leave but choose not to for various reasons. Starting a product and services company soon for developers (the customers) based on the schleps I've encountered. Just need to wrap up the current contract...

I'm in a similar situation to yours with similar numbers now. Just curious, what technology are you using? I'm on Rails, outside the valley, but my clients are inside. Ironically enough, 2 years ago I was working for $500/week, and working twice as hard as I am now

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#99

Post by hnwh »

coolsunglasses wrote: post #80
nilkn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel you could have reached this stage from outside the Valley?

100% yes. I stay in the valley for the sake of risk aversion and because I am planning to start a product company soon.

How would you be able to network as effectively as you do now, if you were outside the valley?

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#100

Post by coolsunglasses »

hnwh wrote: post #99
coolsunglasses wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% yes. I stay in the valley for the sake of risk aversion and because I am planning to start a product company soon.

How would you be able to network as effectively as you do now, if you were outside the valley?

The same way I do now? None of my consulting contacts are in the valley.
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