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Are you an underpaid developer?

blog.goodsense.io

61–70 of 119 posts

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#61

Yes, you probably are underpaid, but not by the delta you'd assume based on the original post. Both of the sources cited are talent agencies. Talent agencies make their fee based on the signing salary of their candidates. It's in their interest to drive the market value higher, even if with speculation. On the other end, I'm on the hiring side, so it's obviously in my interest to try and keep those numbers down. I al…

Portland, Minneapolis, San Antonio, and Chicago are all relatively low-wage cities for software developers. The averages are bumped upwards by all the folks working in Silicon Valley, NYC, and Boston.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#62

I'm in southern Ontario. My experience: A few years mostly doing development on a LAMP stack and admin stuff on Linux/Windows systems along with some iOS dev thrown in there. Salaried at $50k from my day job and doing some part-time work.I've yet to met anyone who has made over $70k/year here doing this kind of work. (at least, they won't say how much they've earned)

Although I agree somewhat, you're doing something wrong. I live there too, my starting salary right out of school with almost no "professional" programming experience was around 70k and it was with languages I had never touched - so don't over emphasis the language. I know plenty of people making close to 100k, those jobs may be limited but they are there for good programmers. There are a lot, and I mean a lot of shitty programming jobs in Ontario, mostly because programmers are hired by non tech firms that have some tech side to be code monkeys. I basically rejected a handful of lower salary jobs right out of schools or jobs where interviewers where asking extremely language specific questions (I had an interview where a guy kept asking me syntax based questions in JS, when I made it abundantly clear I did not know JS, and this went on for 45 mins of me guessing syntax...) until I found a job that had decent pay (a little under 70k - this was still depressing as most my friends had 95k+ salary in SF) and interesting work; but left a year later because the salary wasn't competitive with the rest of the world, bonuses were crap and there was little room for growth. The best advice I can give you is work on personal projects and don't use your co workers salary as bases of average range, because you will run into the situation where dev x whose been at the company for 30 years is only making 30k more and they use that as a basis to justify your salary. I know people that were working at my first job with almost 10 years more experience then me making 10-15k more then me, and there is a reason why they would have had a hard time getting jobs elsewhere; A lot of Canadian companies will have you sign contracts that anything you invent(which includes any personal projects) in your own time will belong to the company unless you get explicit permission from their over paranoid lawyers, this process takes about 2-3 weeks and most good hackers stop hacking and fall for daily routine work, 9-5. Although it protects the company for minor legalities it completely destroys the hacking culture (why do you think RIM failed to innovate?). So although they have thousands of hours worth of experience its in closed system, and redundant. Finally, be open to moving, 95% of my friends have taken jobs in SF or NY, because they got tired of bs like this.

tl;dr hack on your free time, be open to moving, be so good they can't ignore you.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're making $100k in say, San Francisco, about half your paycheck is gone to federal, state, and local taxes, social security, retirement plan, etc. Say you're left with $4200/mo. Take a look at house prices and rents there. There goes half of that. Now half of what's left on food. Now you need transportation, clothes, a phone, insurance, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a pretty good life. And you can definitely s…

As someone who lives in Seattle, where housing prices are getting pretty ridiculous, the running joke is "at least we're not San Francisco" I love the bay area, but you're right, it's pretty deceptive to look at a dev salary in SF at 100k and compare it to a dev's salary in the rust belt.

Mortgages are so cheap now, though, that housing costs so much less per month than it did 7 years ago.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#64

Yes, you probably are underpaid, but not by the delta you'd assume based on the original post. Both of the sources cited are talent agencies. Talent agencies make their fee based on the signing salary of their candidates. It's in their interest to drive the market value higher, even if with speculation. On the other end, I'm on the hiring side, so it's obviously in my interest to try and keep those numbers down. I al…

There's lots of anecdotal evidence here in this thread that developers can command a high salary.

From the hiring side, of course I wouldn't want developers to know about this. If I've been given a certain hiring budget I have to convince devs that they aren't being underpaid.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#65
post #49

One thing this forgets to mention is that you can't compare freelance and employee direct like that. First you have to consider taxes, as a contractor they don't cover half your social security, so about 7%. Next you have to consider healthcare, varies but often 4% or more. Stock options and 401k can add 10% if you are at the right place. 3 weeks vacation is another 6%. So benefits are about 25% of your paycheck (thi…

4%? Wow. My employee health insurance is $10k for 1 insured, $20k for family, per year. I would love that to be close to 4%.

Also, employers often pay office rent for employees. And freelancers spend unpaid time doing marketing/sales to get gigs.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#66
post #9

There is no such thing as an underpaid developer. The key skill is in recognizing your value as measured by the market. And to find that out, you need to test the waters. If you aren't testing the waters, you aren't underpaid (because you've restricted your scope to just the current firm, and are getting the only market price available) This is a real problem in finance, where a lot of people think they are worth mor…

Making a credible threat to retire is a legitimate way to negotiate higher pay at a single employer, if you are more valuable than your replacement.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#67
I work at a company that pays more than 250k+ for developers in SV. I have been working in SV for more than a decade. 250K is the new 150k (I made 150k before the financial crisis). Google, Apple, Msft, Yahoo, FB and host of other big internet companies pay you 200-250k+ if you include salary+bonus+stockoptions(RSUs). I spent quite a bit of time interviewing in startups in New york and SV to explore if they pay better. The answer is a resounding no. Working for a startup as an engineer is a losing proposition. Unless you are doing something cutting edge, it is absloutely pointless working for a startup. End of the day you are parsing json/xml or reading/writing to a db/nosql. Might as well earn a big paycheck for doing that crap.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#68

SV here as well, independent contractor. 190k a year, ~6 years of experience, was making ~120k 3 years ago, ~40k a year 4 years ago. Contracts are remote, so I could leave but choose not to for various reasons. Starting a product and services company soon for developers (the customers) based on the schleps I've encountered. Just need to wrap up the current contract...

Just trying to understand but what does that 190k look like post tax in the valley?

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#69
Being underpaid means you're getting less than average.. right?

So if everyone is "underpaid", actually.. they're not?

Being freelance is a pretty different thing. The take home money isn't that much different and you have to worry about a lot more things, including "will i get paid for stuff".

All these articles generally do is attempt to generate more inflation in salary. Yes SOME people do sometimes get outrageous salaries and are neither exceptional or influential individuals, but, that's not the norm, IMO.

Re: Are you an underpaid developer?

#70
post #69

Being underpaid means you're getting less than average.. right? So if everyone is "underpaid", actually.. they're not? Being freelance is a pretty different thing. The take home money isn't that much different and you have to worry about a lot more things, including "will i get paid for stuff". All these articles generally do is attempt to generate more inflation in salary. Yes SOME people do sometimes get outrageous…

It might not be the norm, but it's good to realize that it's absolutely achievable. Anything is possible if you really think you deserve it :) It's all about hacking the world.
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