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Problems with the TSA

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Re: Problems with the TSA

#81

Post by rdtsc »

themgt wrote: post #66
DannyBee wrote: post #56

I was with him until I watched the actual video, where he basically comes off like a guy deliberately looking for a fight who gets one. He tries to pull the "i don't have to explain why it's a medically necessary liquid, you fuckers should screen it". All they did was ask why it was medically necessary, which is reasonable, in order to prevent people from abusing the policy. His citation that the special needs memo s…

TSA contractors have absolutely no right to demand intimate medical information from people who simply wish to travel through the air. The fact that you would think otherwise is a symptom of how unhinged the thinking in this country has become. They prohibited him from drinking juice. He asked to be allowed to drink it in front of them, and they said no. What in the fuck is anyone from anywhere doing telling anyone t…

"Don't drink this explosive liquid! Let us throw it in the bin here, 5 yards away from a long line of people, that also contains supposedly over-sized bottles of equally explosive and dangerous liquids"

Re: Problems with the TSA

#82

Post by javert »

colanderman wrote: post #33
javert wrote: post #4

My mother can't travel by plane, because she has aphasia (can't speak) and a leg brace, due to her stroke. If I go through the airport with her, there is no guarantee the agents will let me stay with her and explain the situation. She can't remove the leg brace on her own for them to make sure it's not a weapon, and TSA agents can't do it properly. So, basically, taking her to the airport is a recipe for having her v…

Can she not carry a written note (perhaps signed by a doctor) to hand to the TSA agent explaining her situation?

That would be a start, but there's no _guarantee_ that they will abide by the note.

Besides sometimes being coarse and unhelpful, there are _many_ documented incidences of abuse on the part of the TSA. I would not feel comfortable with the TSA even taking her out of my sight, because if anything abusive happened, she would not be able to communicate that, due to the aphasia.

It's surprising that people can be so nasty, but while a lot of the TSA people are decent folks that think they're doing something patriotic, some of them are bottom-of-the-barrel scum who would not be employable anywhere else. And some of them get off on having unchecked power.

There might actually be some kind of procedure to go with a person as a caretaker and be allowed to _stay_ with them, that I'm just unaware of.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#83

Post by saraid216 »

cj wrote: post #69
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If you approach the TSA adversarially, it's logical that they'd respond unpleasantly.” Why? Aren't they trained to deal with all kinds of people and types of behavior, like anyone in a customer facing profession? If I go to an Apple Store to buy a product while I'm in a bad mood and don't feel up for chit-chat, the sales rep isn't going to make me play nice. Also, I think Sai was very courteous and patient, given th…

If a cop stops you on the street because he thinks you look suspicious, how do you respond? 1) "It's none of your business. I'm going to start recording you to make sure you handle this situation legally" 2) "I'm just rolling a cigarette. Don't worry it's not weed!" Although most people don't like answering to authority, especially when they aren't required to, option #2 is the path of least resistance. That said, I…

> If a cop stops you on the street because he thinks you look suspicious, how do you respond?

This depends entirely on how much faith I have in the cop's capacity to operate within his legal boundaries.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#84

Post by erikpukinskis »

ricardobeat wrote: post #73
iandanforth wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what video you watched. Here's a guy who, to the extent of his non-lawyer knowledge, stands up for his rights in the face of bureaucratic harassment. He doesn't yell, scream, or cry, he just insists on people following their own rules, not having his possessions taken, and being treated like a citizen whose rights should be respected. The above comment implies that it is reasonable for TSA contractors to…

If you ignore the fact that the guy was trying to board with 2 liters of liquid, when the limit is 100ml, then yes. Imagine he was trying to board with a 2kg pack of sugar instead. Just saying it is 'medical' is not enough, otherwise anything would go through just by saying the magic word. From the agent's perspective, some guy with a camera showed up with 2L of juice, clearly not allowed, and didn't want to give any…

According to his blog post, there is no limit on volume. I don't know where you're getting this 100ml number.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#85

Post by bigiain »

anigbrowl wrote: post #41
javert wrote: post #4

My mother can't travel by plane, because she has aphasia (can't speak) and a leg brace, due to her stroke. If I go through the airport with her, there is no guarantee the agents will let me stay with her and explain the situation. She can't remove the leg brace on her own for them to make sure it's not a weapon, and TSA agents can't do it properly. So, basically, taking her to the airport is a recipe for having her v…

The TSA is a direct, overt violation of the 4th amendment (search and seizure). Thus, the US federal government is not legitimate under the US Constitution. Don't be so fucking stupid. Apart from the obvious argument that flying is a privilege and not a right, and that you don't need to fly (however impractical this is), even if you were right on the 4th amendment argument it doesn't mean 'the US federal government i…

"Apart from the obvious argument that flying is a privilege and not a right"

Really? Why is that true? Who gets to decide what's a "right" and what's a "privilege"? On what basis is that determined? What's the means by which the public can challenge those decisions?

Without appropriate answers to those questions, in what way is a society operation under those rules not a totalitarian state?

Re: Problems with the TSA

#86

Post by coin »

anigbrowl wrote: post #41
javert wrote: post #4

My mother can't travel by plane, because she has aphasia (can't speak) and a leg brace, due to her stroke. If I go through the airport with her, there is no guarantee the agents will let me stay with her and explain the situation. She can't remove the leg brace on her own for them to make sure it's not a weapon, and TSA agents can't do it properly. So, basically, taking her to the airport is a recipe for having her v…

The TSA is a direct, overt violation of the 4th amendment (search and seizure). Thus, the US federal government is not legitimate under the US Constitution. Don't be so fucking stupid. Apart from the obvious argument that flying is a privilege and not a right, and that you don't need to fly (however impractical this is), even if you were right on the 4th amendment argument it doesn't mean 'the US federal government i…

Here we go again, another "flying is a privilege" argument.

Flying is a right: " A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace." From http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/40103

I choose to exercise that right by hiring air travel with an airline.

Airspace is a public resource that belongs to everyone.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#87

Post by hnolable »

ricardobeat wrote: post #73
iandanforth wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what video you watched. Here's a guy who, to the extent of his non-lawyer knowledge, stands up for his rights in the face of bureaucratic harassment. He doesn't yell, scream, or cry, he just insists on people following their own rules, not having his possessions taken, and being treated like a citizen whose rights should be respected. The above comment implies that it is reasonable for TSA contractors to…

If you ignore the fact that the guy was trying to board with 2 liters of liquid, when the limit is 100ml, then yes. Imagine he was trying to board with a 2kg pack of sugar instead. Just saying it is 'medical' is not enough, otherwise anything would go through just by saying the magic word. From the agent's perspective, some guy with a camera showed up with 2L of juice, clearly not allowed, and didn't want to give any…

Just FYI, they tested the liquid in question for explosives and of course it turned up negative (as can be seen near the end of the video). Would requiring a doctor's note or more explanation really make any of us safer. I'm sure the terrorists have doctors too. I think the main point here was this was already decided in court and even put into policy and the TSA just disregarded it.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#88

Post by saraid216 »

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #78
themgt wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA contractors have absolutely no right to demand intimate medical information from people who simply wish to travel through the air. The fact that you would think otherwise is a symptom of how unhinged the thinking in this country has become. They prohibited him from drinking juice. He asked to be allowed to drink it in front of them, and they said no. What in the fuck is anyone from anywhere doing telling anyone t…

> TSA contractors have absolutely no right to demand intimate medical information from people who simply wish to travel through the air. They're not doing that. They're demanding a doctor's note (official communication from your doctor to people like employers, school administrators... in other words, not intimate information) only in the case that you need an exemption from the rule that prohibits you from carrying…

It's not an exemption from the rules when the rules explicitly say that it's cool.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#89

Post by eigenvector »

DannyBee wrote: post #56

I was with him until I watched the actual video, where he basically comes off like a guy deliberately looking for a fight who gets one. He tries to pull the "i don't have to explain why it's a medically necessary liquid, you fuckers should screen it". All they did was ask why it was medically necessary, which is reasonable, in order to prevent people from abusing the policy. His citation that the special needs memo s…

Picking a model plaintiff for litigation of this type is very important. Just look at how the plaintiffs in what became DC v. Heller (the case that established the 2nd Amendment as an individual rather than a collective right) were selected:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller...

Re: Problems with the TSA

#90

Post by fuuuuuuuuuuu »

ricardobeat wrote: post #73
iandanforth wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what video you watched. Here's a guy who, to the extent of his non-lawyer knowledge, stands up for his rights in the face of bureaucratic harassment. He doesn't yell, scream, or cry, he just insists on people following their own rules, not having his possessions taken, and being treated like a citizen whose rights should be respected. The above comment implies that it is reasonable for TSA contractors to…

If you ignore the fact that the guy was trying to board with 2 liters of liquid, when the limit is 100ml, then yes. Imagine he was trying to board with a 2kg pack of sugar instead. Just saying it is 'medical' is not enough, otherwise anything would go through just by saying the magic word. From the agent's perspective, some guy with a camera showed up with 2L of juice, clearly not allowed, and didn't want to give any…

> Just saying it is 'medical' is not enough, otherwise anything would go through just by saying the magic word.

Legally speaking, just saying it's 'medical' should be enough to trigger a testing for safety, followed by permitting it through.

You're not required to reveal a particular disease (or use of something) under the ADA.

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