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Problems with the TSA

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Re: Problems with the TSA

#31

Post by _delirium »

rdtsc wrote: post #23
w1ntermute wrote: post #6

We complain about the TSA on here all the time, but it's important to remember that the average American sees absolutely nothing wrong with what the TSA does. They genuinely and wholeheartedly believe that the TSA is helping to make the skies safer for Americans, and that it is doing so without violating any civil liberties. The idea that "if you have nothing to hide, why do you care if the authorities search you?" i…

Americans (and I am painting with a very wide brush here) I find are very authoritarian. For all the propaganda about freedom, independence, personal rights and property, they are very willing to support authority, very obedient, and most of all would not lift a finger to protect or step up if they see authority overstepping its bounds. As a bit of a background, I grew in a former communist dictatorship so I am famil…

I think it's vaguely true in an absolute sense, but I haven't lived anywhere else where people are less submissive to authority, except in countries which have obviously corrupt governments. It seems like a general feature of first-world countries. I live in Denmark now, and if anything people defer to the authorities here even more than in the US.

I have some friends in Greece who don't trust the authorities, but it had to get to a pretty bad state there for that to happen (e.g., infiltration of the police by far-right organizations).

Re: Problems with the TSA

#32

Post by mgkimsal »

holograham wrote: post #7
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? What else are we supposed to do? They're going to do as they please until someone with authority makes it expensive or impossible for them to do so.

specifically the tone of the overall post and the lack of fact citing for his policy recommendations. Why the 1 quart rule? Why not 2 quarts? 3 quarts? ... I am in 100% agreement that the TSA's policies are mostly erroneous and devoid of logic but my recommendation is combat them with objective facts and logic with a touch of social awareness.

The 1 quart may have been specifically tailored to his own requirements, but I can imagine that many people, for most flights, would be fine with medical liquid amounts of 1q or smaller. Trying to bring a gallon or two of something on a plane just may not be practical, regardless of the medical necessity, and other transport might be required. But... the 3oz rule has struck me as stupid from day one.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#33

Post by colanderman »

javert wrote: post #4

My mother can't travel by plane, because she has aphasia (can't speak) and a leg brace, due to her stroke. If I go through the airport with her, there is no guarantee the agents will let me stay with her and explain the situation. She can't remove the leg brace on her own for them to make sure it's not a weapon, and TSA agents can't do it properly. So, basically, taking her to the airport is a recipe for having her v…

Can she not carry a written note (perhaps signed by a doctor) to hand to the TSA agent explaining her situation?

Re: Problems with the TSA

#34

Post by mikeash »

w1ntermute wrote: post #6

We complain about the TSA on here all the time, but it's important to remember that the average American sees absolutely nothing wrong with what the TSA does. They genuinely and wholeheartedly believe that the TSA is helping to make the skies safer for Americans, and that it is doing so without violating any civil liberties. The idea that "if you have nothing to hide, why do you care if the authorities search you?" i…

Complaining about the awful stuff they do is part of that public education mission.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#35

Post by Shivetya »

w1ntermute wrote: post #6

We complain about the TSA on here all the time, but it's important to remember that the average American sees absolutely nothing wrong with what the TSA does. They genuinely and wholeheartedly believe that the TSA is helping to make the skies safer for Americans, and that it is doing so without violating any civil liberties. The idea that "if you have nothing to hide, why do you care if the authorities search you?" i…

Oh I am quite sure the average American DOES see something wrong with the TSA, however they are resigned to grousing about it as individually they cannot see anything they can do but accept it.

It would take a new political group to arise and challenge those in power, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. The Tea Party got branded by its kooks because both Republicans and Democrats saw the threat is posed to them. Republicans because it directly challenged them and Democrats who desperately didn't want the same to come up and challenge them from within.

So I think Americans care, but are resigned to the fact that short of a major upheaval or serious blunder by the TSA not much will change.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#36

Post by mikeash »

js2 wrote: post #9

On March 1, 2013, San Francisco TSA FYI, "Covenant Aviation Security, a private company under contract with the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), provides passenger and baggage screening at SFO." Per http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/atsfo/saf-sec/

I don't think you get to shirk responsibility just because you contract the job out. Even if TSA contracts out security at this airport, the contractor is still operating under TSA rules and TSA is ultimately responsible for their behavior.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#37

Post by [deleted] »

colanderman wrote: post #33
javert wrote: post #4

My mother can't travel by plane, because she has aphasia (can't speak) and a leg brace, due to her stroke. If I go through the airport with her, there is no guarantee the agents will let me stay with her and explain the situation. She can't remove the leg brace on her own for them to make sure it's not a weapon, and TSA agents can't do it properly. So, basically, taking her to the airport is a recipe for having her v…

Can she not carry a written note (perhaps signed by a doctor) to hand to the TSA agent explaining her situation?

[deleted]

Re: Problems with the TSA

#38

Post by jennyjenjen »

_delirium wrote: post #31
rdtsc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans (and I am painting with a very wide brush here) I find are very authoritarian. For all the propaganda about freedom, independence, personal rights and property, they are very willing to support authority, very obedient, and most of all would not lift a finger to protect or step up if they see authority overstepping its bounds. As a bit of a background, I grew in a former communist dictatorship so I am famil…

I think it's vaguely true in an absolute sense, but I haven't lived anywhere else where people are less submissive to authority, except in countries which have obviously corrupt governments. It seems like a general feature of first-world countries. I live in Denmark now, and if anything people defer to the authorities here even more than in the US. I have some friends in Greece who don't trust the authorities, but it…

I can understand that in some Nordic countries where there is a little more civic involvement and participation in government all around. They have a multi-party system and the population trusts the government a lot more - not because they are sheep, but because the government is highly transparent and cooperation between parties is encouraged. People feel well-represented there and in Sweden, from my observations.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#39

Post by peteforde »

What I wouldn't do for some of the folks that have accumulated wealth via tech exits to get together and create a pool of $20-50M to start an organization that will both lobby to dismantle the TSA and provide education and defence for those who are bullied in the meantime.

Look at the good that the EFF and Creative Commons have done. It's time for people to reclaim their freedom of movement.

FWIW, I'm Canadian and I would sign up for a regular donation if such an organization existed. That's how frustrated I am by the global chill that the TSA/DHS has created, all without a single documented terrorist caught.

Re: Problems with the TSA

#40

Post by cj »

I really don't like most of the TSA's procedures either, but watching the hidden camera video, it seems like the OP went in to the situation expecting to have an issue with the TSA. If you approach the TSA adversarially, it's logical that they'd respond unpleasantly.

OP: In a patronizing tone: "You're required to accept it, and to screen it. You have the means available to screen it, namely xray and explosive trace detection"

TSA: "Sir, where are you going?"

OP: "That's none of your business"

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