Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost • Hacker News Board

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#51

Post by jiggy2011 » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:02 PM UTC

corresation wrote: post #14

cooldeal wrote: post #2

For the life of me I cannot fathom why PlayHaven went to the extreme step of firing the dev in question. What he did was certainly wrong, but certainly not a firable offense. A stern warning from HR would've sufficed. Also, I don't understand the hate and DDoS directed towards SendGrid. I think if any, PlayHaven should've been subject of it and pressured to reinstate the dev in question. SendGrid should've been press…

SendGrid should've been pressured to warn her, not fire her like it happened. Their entire business was under assault. They really had no choice in the matter and really are the biggest victims of the whole ridiculous ordeal. This has all turned into farce.

That sets a rather worrying precedent though, if someone takes a dislike to me because of some perceived grievance and proceeds to DDOS my employer's website is that justifiable grounds for firing me?

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#52

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:02 PM UTC

redthrowaway wrote: post #22

I think the most interesting part of this post was a simple observation that I, for one, hadn't seen elsewhere: We don't know why PlayHaven fired the dev in the first place. Sure, the controversy undoubtedly played a role. But we don't know if the dev was on the ropes, if he wasn't pulling his weight, or if his boss simply didn't like him. This may have been a gross overreaction, or it may have been the straw that br…

[deleted]

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#53

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:03 PM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #31

Without tumbling deep into a flame war, I'd like to ask a sincere question. I have trouble understanding the sexism behind the remarks, and why the instigator needs to apologize (for sexism). People get offended for all kinds of things, nobody can claim a monopoloy on that. ( http://imgur.com/EX5v4 stephen fry quote) - If they would both have been gay and talking about a homosexual topic, someone in that room would b…

[deleted]

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#54

Post by jrs235 » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:03 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #20

btilly wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the life of me cannot fathom why PlayHaven went to the extreme step of firing the dev in question. They had 2 devs involved that incident. One they fired. One they publicly said was a valued employee. We will never know why they did what they did, why those devs were treated differently, and whether they had cause for their action. I personally find it hard to believe that this event would be enough cause by itse…

But it's a terrible tactical move. They fired one dev out of two, presumably as a value proposition: this was just the one thing to break the camel's back. Which is reasonable, but the issue is that it looks like they fired him entirely for the comment, which obviously has the potential to create a PR fiasco. Lo and behold...

Perhaps the one that was fired was on probation or already on a performance plan for other issues. This may have been the "not gonna work here" moment.

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#55

Post by niggler » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:04 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #45

Let's simplify the rules to basic decency. Don't Be a Dick. Oh wait, I guess I can't say that now. Well, fuck me. Whoops, can't say that either. I hope mr-hank gets a huge severance out of PlayHaven. (At-will employment is not as simple as employers like to say it is.) At this point, he has position for something substantial, given that they discussed the termination in the public (disclosing an opinion that he is gu…

Keep in mind that PlayHaven probably sponsored his participation in PyCon and he would have been treated as a representative of the company.

If they have standards of conduct (probably codified in some employee manual) there are probably contingencies for this exact circumstance which allow them to fire him.

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#56

Post by redthrowaway » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:05 PM UTC

cobrausn wrote: post #49

redthrowaway wrote: post #22

I think the most interesting part of this post was a simple observation that I, for one, hadn't seen elsewhere: We don't know why PlayHaven fired the dev in the first place. Sure, the controversy undoubtedly played a role. But we don't know if the dev was on the ropes, if he wasn't pulling his weight, or if his boss simply didn't like him. This may have been a gross overreaction, or it may have been the straw that br…

http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/ PlayHaven adressed this directly. They are blaming it on the incident at PyCon.

>We value and protect the privacy of our employees, both past and present, and we will not comment on all the factors that contributed to our parting ways.

All I get from that is that it played a role. In fact, their statement is tacit support of the argument that the controversy wasn't the only factor in their decision.

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#57

Post by WalterSear » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:05 PM UTC

That this kind of blog post is a response to the situation is a small glimmer of how eventually we can all 'win' from this.

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#58

Post by johnward » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:05 PM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #31

Without tumbling deep into a flame war, I'd like to ask a sincere question. I have trouble understanding the sexism behind the remarks, and why the instigator needs to apologize (for sexism). People get offended for all kinds of things, nobody can claim a monopoloy on that. ( http://imgur.com/EX5v4 stephen fry quote) - If they would both have been gay and talking about a homosexual topic, someone in that room would b…

It's not sexist. It was just a childish joke. Probably inappropriate in the setting, but it got blown way out of proportion.

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#59

Post by cglee » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #31

Without tumbling deep into a flame war, I'd like to ask a sincere question. I have trouble understanding the sexism behind the remarks, and why the instigator needs to apologize (for sexism). People get offended for all kinds of things, nobody can claim a monopoloy on that. ( http://imgur.com/EX5v4 stephen fry quote) - If they would both have been gay and talking about a homosexual topic, someone in that room would b…

Discussions like this seem to always come back to a sense of "fairness". It's not about being fair, but about how situations make people feel.

Majority-group members tend to brush away the sensitivities of minority-group members. If you're straight, you can walk hand-in-hand with your spouse without issue. You may even be able to embrace publicly, and kiss, hug and display all kinds of PDA. Gay couples can't do that without fear of reprisal, sometimes violently.

Minority-group members are only "safe" in certain places.

At a tech conference, women are in the minority, and so crass comments about/towards women are not perceived in a safe way. It's not your buddy making a funny joke, it's the majority-group members expressing oppression.

Whether you personally agree with that is not the point; it's how minority-group members feel.

Be aware of that.

Re: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost

#60

Post by smokeyj » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

redthrowaway wrote: post #22

I think the most interesting part of this post was a simple observation that I, for one, hadn't seen elsewhere: We don't know why PlayHaven fired the dev in the first place. Sure, the controversy undoubtedly played a role. But we don't know if the dev was on the ropes, if he wasn't pulling his weight, or if his boss simply didn't like him. This may have been a gross overreaction, or it may have been the straw that br…

> Moreover, this is not due to some personal flaw on their parts: it's simply how we, as human beings, are built.

This. We just witnessed a snowball turn into an avalanch. I know I've experienced this in personal relationships more than once. Emotions make us great and they make us terrible. Which gave me an idea: A bug tracker for relationships. Addressing a problem immediately sounds good on paper, but we often need time to distance ourselves to be able to think critically. If couples started using a bug-tracker for relationship issues, you could log the issue in detail when it happens, sit on it for a few days, and address it up when both parties are level headed. I doubt I'd ever want to use this product, but if anyone else wants to..