That the guy/gal reporting on this had to do it through Pastebin, in fear of something similar happening to him, it's telling.
It seems the tech world (or the corporate US) has its own "thought crimes", even "joke crimes".
The PyCon Incident
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Re: The PyCon Incident
#832Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, I am really puzzled as to why these "jokes" are supposed to be offensive to women. They might be offensive to people raised in some cultures / subcultures, and they don't sound like they're great jokes in any culture, but nobody ever told me about the meeting where women decided knob jokes were offensive. In fact a female friend texted me one about an hour ago.
Imagine this situation: You are walking down the street. It starts to rain, so you duck into the nearest business, a bar. You order a beer, and realize that you have stepped into a gay bar. The table behind you starts making jokes about how virgin anuses are the best. They are pretty big guys, leather daddies. You worry they're talking about you, about your anus. You worry. That feeling of discomfort? The way your he…
And now someone checks your profile, finds out where you work, and exposes you on the net as a "homophobic hater" and gets you fired.
How about THIS analogy?
Re: The PyCon Incident
#833Earlier quoted context omitted.
BS. I'm getting sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their actions. Now I do agree with you somewhat. I doubt she saw this "joke" as an opportunity to screw someone over (at least I hope so. If she did, then all bets are off); but that doesn't excuse her wrong. Her actions caused this guy to be fired. She needs to own it. Apoligize, Offer amends and move on.
Note where you stop in the causal chain: with the woman. You could blame the millennia of sexism that set up the situation. You could blame the gender-imbalanced context: it's easy for humans to be insensitive to minority views. You could blame the guy's parents and teachers for not raising him right. You could blame the guy for saying something inappropriate. You could blame his friends for not reigning him in. You…
> You could blame the guy for saying something inappropriate.
It wasn't inappropriate.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#834Earlier quoted context omitted.
The simplest way I can explain this to you is that for various reasons some people enjoy conforming, others don't. And, this case highlights different things about the "real world" to different people.
If you don't want to conform, don't wear a uniform identifying you with the group you don't want to conform with.
Sorry for the confusion but was just answering your question, not talking about myself. I don't wear any uniforms. Interesting view though, considering we're talking about primary through high school students. Not sure how many children have the power to choose their own school. I'd imagine most don't have that choice and therefor are identified with groups they had no hand in choosing.
edit: just noticed the another commenter already pointed this out to you.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#835Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I understood correctly, Adria is not another employee, but has the role of developer evangelist. In that role, your twitter account is very much an extension of your job.
In that light, I do not understand how this woman is still employed. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/6039856858 Who exactly is she "evangelizing" for? All developers? I find that really hard to believe given her extremely public politics.
Seriously, does she really believe racism is only one sided? I had to read that tweet more than once to be sure I was reading it correctly.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#836Adria Richards is an evil cunt.
SendGrid is a shit company that I would never want to work for.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#837Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your exploitative example of walking into a gay bar is a disgrace. Assuming the record of events are true, the men in question at Pycon were making a joke about penises, not harassing a woman as stated in your analogy. They are two totally different things. Your failed attempt to appeal to homophobic tendencies does not qualify as an argument.
First, I wasn't making an analogy. Second, there was no harassment in my story. The person at the bar interpreted the comments as about him. But as I was writing the story, I imagine they were talking about something else entirely, and didn't notice him. Third, I was not attempting to appeal to homophobic tendencies. I was attempting to create a legitimate scenario where an average guy might feel afraid of sexual ass…
Almost everyone can understand irrational fear. Phobias exist almost everywhere, and by dictionary definition, its disproportional fear to the actual dangers. In clinical psychology, its defined as a type of anxiety disorder. It belongs in the same category as people who are afraid of small rodents, small spaces, large spaces and meteors. Almost anyone with a phobia can put themselves in the shoes of someone else with a different phobia.
It should be added that around 10% of adults has some kind of phobia. Its common, and perfect understandable. At the same time, there is not much anyone can do about it. Avoiding all possible triggers for phobias is neither a option nor is it even a good thing. Treatments for phobias often include some kind of desensitisation by exposure, so avoidance is actually decremental.
That said, crude jokes are boring. I would just had told the two guys to be quiet because the python talk is infinitive more interesting than some crude joke regarding anatomy.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#838I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…
Update: Someone has created a change.org petition to have Adria fired. I think it's only fair that she is fired, considering the fact that she put two innocent men's lives at stake.
https://www.change.org/petitions/sendgrid-please-fire-adria-...
Also:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/374/323/889/give-alex-reid-hi...
Re: The PyCon Incident
#839Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't sound like much fun. I work with many women and men... We are all make horrible sex jokes throughout the day. Are you the guy sitting by yourself at lunch?
No, I happen to be the woman who actually enjoys hanging out with her current colleagues - who all strangely managed to grow up past puberty.
I respect women like youself so I will reply in the same way I would reply to any male poster on this forum. What reality do you live in? Do you honestly think it is only prepubescent teens who make jokes involving sex and reproductive organs? Do you further deny that such jokes can actually be funny? I'm not going to debate what is work appropriate. But I think you grossly mischaracterize the nature of people and humor in a very broad way.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#840Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good news! You also can police conversations. Even when you're not a member of a protected group. That's especially true when the conference has a clear policy on the sorts of topics allowed. For example, it turns out white people don't have to just sit there when somebody's being racist. They can speak up just as much as a black person can.
It's kind of hard to figure out what to do. Harassment is obviously something I would speak out against. But when we define "harassment" to be whatever a minority member in earshot finds offensive things become murky. Perhaps I should constantly poll nearby women at a conference - "ma'am, has anybody said anything recently which you find offensive?" There is such a thing as unacceptable behavior. But the measure of t…
Where I live conferences are considered a workplace so our strict equal opportunity and sex discrimination acts apply. Under these acts, crude conversation and jokes are considered to contribute to a hostile working environment. In the event the someone (male or female) is offended, intimidated, or humiliated they are at liberty to file a sexual harassment claim. The intent of the harasser is irrelevant. It can be a single incident or repeated behaviour and the victim is not required confront their harasser. The parties need not even be employed by the same entity.
Of course these very same laws require that the claim is filed confidentially, and the kind of public shaming we've seen here is itself considered harassment.
If PyCon had been held here the only party with their noses clean would the conference organisers.