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It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

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Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#61

Post by whatusername »

knowtheory wrote: post #6
vitno wrote: post #3

and this is why I wish the paleo-fanatics would stop harping on the "evolutionary based" part. I eat pretty much paleo. I avoid grains, I limit dairy consumption, I avoid a lot of sugar in my food. However, a lot of the "science" behind paleo is bullshit. The name & culture is the worst thing that could have happened to the diet. Food is important to your health. I eat a lot of vegetables, high quality meat, and avoi…

See, that's just fine! It's awesome that you've found a diet that makes you feel better. But here's the thing. You can't double blind yourself. That's the whole issue with blind trials. Double blind trials require that you do not and can not determine whether you are in the treatment group or not. Additionally, unless you're having an unrelated person prepare the food, w/o any knowledge of which foods are in the "pal…

Some of the paleo-esque promoters like Gary Taubes have been making similar comments about most "mainstream" nutrition research.

That being said -- you don't need to find the optimal for the population. You only need to find the optimal for you. And so even un-blind testing is reasonably effective at that.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#62

Post by analog »

edem wrote: post #28

I think that you miss the point here: If paleo diet is not the silver bullet than what diet should I have? I'm not a paleo advocate by the way. I tried it out but I'm not having a paleo diet at the moment. I'm still trying to find some alternate diet which is proven to be healthy. It seems that this may be one of the most difficult endeavor I've ever undertaken. Any suggestions?

Has anyone claimed that the Paleo diet is unhealthy? From what I've seen the only complaints against it are that the claimed reason for it's effectiveness are not well supported.

I don't have any studies but it certainly seems healthier than the high-carb, low-fat diet which was promoted by the medical establishment for so long.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#63

Post by acangiano »

LaGrange wrote: post #17
vitno wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I removed that. I figured that I would get some flak. :P I did have my roommate prepare the food. Another one of my roommates swapped/labeled the food and then went to class, no interaction. It was mostly because he didn't believe that I could feel it and that it was mostly in my head. (which I totally understand, I was pretty worried about that as well) We switched out white flour for some almond flour. We also did…

If you have adverse reactions to wheat products after provocation (even tiny amounts should trigger the effects), then it's indeed likely that you do have coeliac disease. About 1% of population have it, so it's not that surprising. Just remember that a test would require a proper, long provocation, otherwise you'll just get a negative from the biopsy because there's no intestinal damage anymore. On the other hand, i…

I'll add to this that it is often (not always) possible to detect the presence of Coeliac Disease through a blood test. That should be the first step before going the colonoscopy route.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#64

Post by randomsearch »

I heartily recommend people check out "The Heretics" by Will Storr.

The book points out, amongst other insights, the tendency of scientists to react irrationally to alternative medicine and other such phenomena. Whilst the scientific community is usually right on such things, we (I'm a scientist) do have a tendency to be very dismissive and even contemptuous of people who believe in alternative therapies (or religion, or a whole host of subjects that contradict scientific thinking).

Seems scientists can be as dogmatic as their opponents. Thought-provoking stuff.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#65

Post by bullsbarry »

darkarmani wrote: post #43
tcskeptic wrote: post #36

I'm not a Paleo dieter, but I am familiar with the gist of their claims. I do not understand how this study is a response to those claims. The 137 mummies studied are from "Individuals from ancient Egypt, ancient Peru, the Ancestral Puebloans of southwest America, and the Unangan of the Aleutian Islands were imaged." Of those we have 3 agricultural civilizations (Egytp, Peru, Pueblo) and one hunter gatherer (Aleutian…

No-true-paleo fallacy.

Not at all. The point OP was making is that these 3 cultures are decidedly NOT paleolithic, and it's disingenuous to use them as examples of the effects of the paleolithic diet on cardiovascular health.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#66

Post by analog »

Nursie wrote: post #49
analog wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it works it's not unmitigated bullshit.

It doesn't. Do you know what we call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

Well I know several people for whom the Paleo diet has worked, and also alt medicine. I don't know why it works but it's unscientific to ignore the evidence simply because you don't understand it.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#67

Post by Nursie »

stiff wrote: post #40
saalweachter wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with herbalism is that it's the first place science-based medicine went looking for drugs. For basically any herb and effect someone ascribes to it, there have already been twenty rigorous studies, and either no statistical effect was found or the responsible chemicals were extracted, purified, concentrated, and synthesized and are now marketed under two brand names and three generics. Going to herbs dire…

Yours is a very common response I get to this - I wonder why, since there is absolutely no evidence for it. You vastly underestimate the number of plants in existence and vastly overestimate the fraction we have been able to study rigorously. You also hugely simplify the chemistry of it all, the main advantage of plants over modern medicine in its typical form is that they contain complex compounds of chemical substa…

"the main advantage of plants over modern medicine in its typical form is that they contain complex compounds of chemical substances which show a synergy in a certain direction"

This is such unutterable nonsense.

Take Aspirin vs. Willow Bark.

Aspirin is derived from substances found in willow bark. Aspirin will cure your headache with a known dose of a substance with a well documented harm profile.

Willow bark will cure your headache with a slightly less effective form of the compound, and if used often enough will harm your liver and kidneys because of all the other stuff that's in there.

Plants are not 'designed' to cure you, the 'spirit of the plant' does not lean in one way or other. This is animistic nonsense.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#68

Post by Udo »

bitwize wrote: post #57
Udo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really refuse to accept that women are just "wired for faith", it sounds too similar to the Victorian notion that somehow women are naturally wired for irrationality. There has to be a social reason why this spreads among women, there is a gap somewhere in science education that leaves women more vulnerable to this. And I actually watched it spread. The transmission seems to be helped by exploiting trusted relation…

Women are more prone to fall for BS because we enculturate them to believe that emotions and warm fuzzy feelings are a more reliable guide than science and logic. Third-wave feminism is partly to blame; the notion that science and logic are "patriarchal" and that not oppressing women entails a warm and fuzzy "feminine" replacement for disciplined thought is the third wave's doing. Thinking logically, critically, and…

This is purely an image problem for science education, then. Because there is absolutely nothing warm and fuzzy about the "natural state" or whatever romanticized notion we're entertaining about nature. Applied science, and more importantly, the ability to apply science, enables people to build, cure, protect, predict, ensure, improve, discover, and many other things that are intrinsically more warm and fuzzy than, say, naturally dying of a curable disease.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#69

Post by ef4 »

darkarmani wrote: post #43
tcskeptic wrote: post #36

I'm not a Paleo dieter, but I am familiar with the gist of their claims. I do not understand how this study is a response to those claims. The 137 mummies studied are from "Individuals from ancient Egypt, ancient Peru, the Ancestral Puebloans of southwest America, and the Unangan of the Aleutian Islands were imaged." Of those we have 3 agricultural civilizations (Egytp, Peru, Pueblo) and one hunter gatherer (Aleutian…

No-true-paleo fallacy.

The no-true-scotsman fallacy implies a shifting or pedantically narrow definition. That's not applicable here.

Paleo fans are very clear that they're trying to emulate pre-agricultural diets. That's the sine qua non of the Paleo fad. So it's totally legitimate that they would object to evidence about agricultural societies.

Re: It’s a part of my paleo fantasy, it’s a part of my paleo dream

#70

Post by up_and_up »

Nursie wrote: post #56
amalag wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the FDA method of approving poisons like modern medicines may not be a relevant methodology for herbs. Before you get all upset I called your favorite prescription medicine a poison, think about what it really is. A poison if taken in high doses. Ayurveda states there are 3 ways to cure disease. Food, herbs and poisons. Modern allopathy is only the third, poisons. It has very little information on how to cure through…

Everything in 'high doses' is a poison, even pure, distilled water. Herbs either contain active chemicals or they're a placebo. If they're a placebo they're as good as taking a sugar pill. If they contain active chemicals they contain unstandardised amounts and probably in concert with all sorts of other things that may or may not be helpful or harmful. Ayurveda is bullshit. QED.

> Ayurveda is bullshit

My wife is an Ayurvedic practitioner, so yes I am biased, but I dont believe in every aspect of it. I can definitely say it is not "bullshit" and it is indeed helping many of her clients.

She has people who come to her, that conventional docs have literally given up on. "We cant figure out what is wrong with your digestion, theres nothing more we can try" she hears stories like that all the time.

People ARE being helped. Whether it is all placebo I dont know for sure. but people who literally have no other options in conventional medicine are seeing real results.

They are sleeping better w/o medication, they are not having anxiety attacks anymore, I could go on and on with her stories.

My wife is pretty humble about it and not selling snake oil etc. People are seeing real results.

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