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Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

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Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#121

Post by fr0sty »

gambiting wrote: post #119

Reddit actually had a few good points against it: 1) Flying Nazguls, first and most obvious - and Sauron would know they are coming, being unoccupied with war with Gondor. 2) By skipping Rohan and successively Gondor, Aragorn never becomes a king, kingdom of humans still most likely falls. 3) Nobody solves the Saruman threat, so in the meantime he becomes more and more powerful - probably crafts his own ring or in an…

One nit-pick: The Peter Jackson film shows Saruman stabbed by Wormtongue before falling to his death from the top of Orthanc.

Furthermore, I believe it is only included in the extended edition of The Two Towers (but I could be wrong on that point).

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#123

Post by joshuahedlund »

jackalope wrote: post #90

One merely has to refer to RFC 1149[1] to determine why this solution is obviously unacceptable: "Avian carriers can provide high delay, low throughput, and low altitude service." "...only guarantees best effort delivery, loss of a carrier can be tolerated." "...storms can cause data loss." "Audit trails are automatically generated, and can often be found on logs and cable trays." And probably most important: "Securi…

To be fair, it's not like the ground method had much room for second chances, either.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#124

Post by hugoc »

Zimahl wrote: post #58
zeteo wrote: post #38

As the article points out, it's a question of stealth versus speed, but speed is not necessarily preferable. The powers of Sauron, especially deep within his own domain, are indeed unknown. With even an hour to react, it is quite possible he would be able to conjure up something that would end up in the whole endeavor delivering the ring to him, instead of destroying it. On the other hand, the stealthiness of hobbits…

Is there really a plan, though? I mean the 'Eagle Plan' seems much more viable than the 'Fellowship Plan'. The fellowship was so bad it even included a couple humans who were pre-disposed to the rings affects and, as such, didn't last too long.

The 'Fellowship Plan' was designed by committee, parties with vested interests, etc., what other outcome could be expected?

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#125

Post by anonymfus »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #92
ctdonath wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, consider the origin of that comment. Dunno if it's in the book, but from the movie: Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its black gates are guarded by more than just orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this. I…

Indeed, it says exactly there in the quote: > riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume As carbon monoxide is lighter than air, orcs and other creatures on the ground are less affected and probably more adapted to the poisonous atmosphere of Mordor; whereas the eagles flying high and accustomed to the clean air of Middle Earth would simply succumb to the prolonged exposure to CO…

>As carbon monoxide is lighter than air

Yes, but distance from chimney and lower atmospheric pressure on high altitude matters too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_pollutant_concentrations#Co...

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#126

Post by kqr2 »

shmerl wrote: post #98

I think the answer is rather straightforward and is hinted in other encounters - eagles are getting involved as a last resort, to maintain the balance of good and evil. They are seen as the open messengers of the divine power, and aren't getting involved when the balance can be maintained by other means. So since there was a way to bring the ring to Mordor (even though an extremely hard one), eagles didn't interfere.…

Interesting theory, however, is there any example where the eagles come to the last minute rescue of Sauron's forces in order to maintain the balance of power?

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#127

Post by squozzer »

The easiest explanation is that Tolkein had crafted a very complex work -- with a chapter on the elvish language IIRC -- that while being uber-geek, was bound to have holes.

Now, for a truly interesting question, how was it that the First Foundation was completely unable to figure out that the Second Foundation's home was on Trantor -- because no one on Terminus was able to recall the phrase, "All roads lead to Trantor, and that is where all stars end."?

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#129

Post by rijoja »

larrydag wrote: post #112
zeteo wrote: post #38

As the article points out, it's a question of stealth versus speed, but speed is not necessarily preferable. The powers of Sauron, especially deep within his own domain, are indeed unknown. With even an hour to react, it is quite possible he would be able to conjure up something that would end up in the whole endeavor delivering the ring to him, instead of destroying it. On the other hand, the stealthiness of hobbits…

I would also like to postulate the element of surprise. Sauron would never expect a weak, feeble creature like a Hobbit to be an adversary. But mostly I agree with your points.

Didn't Sauron know that the ring bearer was a hobbit?

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#130

Post by bargl »

dageshi wrote: post #50

Crows. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain If crows can be sent into the world to hunt for the ringbearer they can certainly patrol the skies around Mordor. Crows spy the eagles entering Mordor and forces are dispatched to counter them.

It is also much easier to spot a flying object from the ground then a ground object from the air. This is why recon is so hard when looking for something from the sky.

It is even easier to locate object in the air from the air.

So effectively to piggy-back on your suggestion crows in the air would be able to see other avian creatures and report on their location faster than they could spot 2 creatures sneaking through the undergrowth.

In which case speed would no longer be very beneficial because aware of the threat (birds being greater than 2 unseen hobbits), you could then mount an attack on the birds.

When balancing stealth and speed I think you can make a strong argument that stealth in this case would be much more important.

Of course this is assuming you are looking for the birds... most land creatures just don't look up very often.

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