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Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

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91–100 of 213 posts

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#91
post #50

Crows. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain If crows can be sent into the world to hunt for the ringbearer they can certainly patrol the skies around Mordor. Crows spy the eagles entering Mordor and forces are dispatched to counter them.

It might also be that Crows do not recognize the hobbits as at threat to report? Hobbits are less known outside of their own realm and maybe the crows thought of them as just another wild animal?

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#92
post #3

One does not simply fly into Mordor!

Well, consider the origin of that comment. Dunno if it's in the book, but from the movie: Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its black gates are guarded by more than just orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this. I…

Indeed, it says exactly there in the quote:

> riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume

As carbon monoxide is lighter than air, orcs and other creatures on the ground are less affected and probably more adapted to the poisonous atmosphere of Mordor; whereas the eagles flying high and accustomed to the clean air of Middle Earth would simply succumb to the prolonged exposure to CO. Of course, the destruction of Mt. Doom and subsequent paralysis of Sauron's military capabilities allow the eagles to fly in at much lower altitudes in the end.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#93
post #89

I think the fact that this is still a debate is an indication of how Tolkien's works have endured. A minor bug in a program that few people use will go unnoticed possibly forever, but the same minor bug in a popular program will be discussed on messageboards ad nauseum. In the same way, the fact that we're even having this debate is a testament to the staying power of these tales and this world he has created. This i…

I'm sympathetic to the overall point, but I don't think the analogy holds. Minor bugs in popular programs are noticed because programs are tools, means to some other end. Fiction is an end to itself, and so the popularity of a work can actually help to shield it against its own bugs.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#94
Perhaps Gandalf feared the power the ring would have over the eagles. Not during the trip, as discussed in the article, but at the moment when it needs to be destroyed. If the eagle changed its mind at that point, there would be nothing they could do about it.

He did not even trust himself with the ring. The ring corrupting a powerful being would be far more devastating than the corruption of a hobbit or man so perhaps he thought that the less involved such beings were in the actual destruction the better.

It's a pity Tolkien isn't around because he must have thought that the reason was trivial enough not to warrant an explanation.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#97
post #50

Crows. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain If crows can be sent into the world to hunt for the ringbearer they can certainly patrol the skies around Mordor. Crows spy the eagles entering Mordor and forces are dispatched to counter them.

Did you read the whole article? "After Frodo and Sam entered Mordor thru Cirith Ungol, Sauron had fully ten days to contemplate the purpose of their mission into Mordor, and did not realize that their plan was to destroy the Ring until the last moment. Given that the Mouth of Sauron refers to the intruders as "spies", Sauron's most likely thought would be that the eagles are merely flying over his realm for reconnais…

Two spies aren't going to do much inside Mordor, in practice they've somehow got to be able to communicate information outside of Mordor, or get out themselves. Either impossible or very very difficult. In terms of being "spies" they are an annoyance, not a huge threat.

A giant eagle patrolling your skies is the complete opposite, it can see everything, all your forces, where they're going, what they're doing and it can get that information back out again quickly while it's still relevant.

So if you have the Nazgul, why wouldn't you send them after such a powerful creature the moment it enters your territory?

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#98
I think the answer is rather straightforward and is hinted in other encounters - eagles are getting involved as a last resort, to maintain the balance of good and evil. They are seen as the open messengers of the divine power, and aren't getting involved when the balance can be maintained by other means. So since there was a way to bring the ring to Mordor (even though an extremely hard one), eagles didn't interfere.

I.e. it can be seen as a way to preserve the potential for choice between good and evil. Open and obvious involvement of the divine diminishes such potential, so it happens only when really necessary.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#99
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An older brother of mine did a master's thesis on Tolkien. One thing he studied in particular is the role that Tolkien's wartime experiences had on his portrayal in the Lord of the Rings. On air power, he explained to me that in WW I airplanes had a great psychological impact, but little practical ones. You see this very clearly in the portrayal of the Nazgul in battle. Where ever you see the Nazgul go, there is grea…

"in WW I airplanes could only be used during the day" Night fighters were used during WW1 by the UK to defend against Zeppelin and Gotha heavy bomber attacks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_fighter

Yes but (ugh, sorry for the cliche) you're missing the forest for the trees.

The issue is not that Tolkien didn't know of airplanes or of aerial warfare. But his most indelible memories of World War I was that of ground campaigns, and even though planes were used in WWI and reputations made (such as that of the Red Baron), they were by and large a fringe part of what comes to mind, at least compared to the introduction of mustard gas and machine guns.

The gap between knowing of something and experiencing something can be quite large. If you hired me to write a novel about conquering adversity through sport, I'd probably write something about basketball, a sport I don't really play but watch and keep tabs on on a regular basis. I would never to think to use soccer as a plot point, even though it's apparently the most popular sport in the world and it's not too hard for me to look up stories/information about soccer today. Sometimes you just go with what you know.

And keep in mind there's a decent lag between introduction of technology and the mainstreaming of technology. Before flight became an integral component of war, Tolkien and everyone else had seen and studied war exclusively through the mindset of land and naval warfare.

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