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Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

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Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#51

Post by hhm »

pixpox3 wrote: post #34
mannicken wrote: post #28

Have you paid anything yet? Don't. Drop him. Here are two good reasons to drop him: 1. You are wasting your time -- I don't think he'll give you anything, or you'll end up spending so much money that profits are unreasonable. 2. Even if he does, what guarantee is there that there is no "surprise" hidden in the code? I have seen freelancers do that when they're disappointed in the buyer. Find another guy and learn fro…

I paid him more than 2000 dollars of the fee already unfortunately. I've learnt a lot from this, specifically that even really good coders (or any professional) can be very good at what they do but still be completely unreasonable and willing to screw you.

I think the comment above is the best path you have now. Get another coder, the development costs so far have been lost. And now pay him every time he/she delivers on a repository (always have the source code with you).

Having a one year project and having no source code for what you paid for is unreasonable for a key asset of your company.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#52

Post by hhm »

menloparkbum wrote: post #44
a-priori wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the programmer is not working on this project full-time.

Even so, $2500 is less than a week's worth of work for anyone good.

In a salary or for freelance? I think salary hours are typically 0.5 * freelance hours, is that right?

So inside a company, $1250 is less than a week's worth of work for anyone good?

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#53

Post by menloparkbum »

hhm wrote: post #52
menloparkbum wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, $2500 is less than a week's worth of work for anyone good.

In a salary or for freelance? I think salary hours are typically 0.5 * freelance hours, is that right? So inside a company, $1250 is less than a week's worth of work for anyone good?

Freelance. Salary-wise, $1250 a week is about $62K per year which anyone with a pulse can get in silicon valley.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#54

Post by plinkplonk »

As an Indian living in Bangalore, I feel odd saying this, since I know that the myth of the "substandard outsourced coder" is largely just that - a myth IF you know what you are doing, but that said, but do not use sites like rentacoder or try to save money by outsourcing unless you personally know someone good.

Find out the market rates for a good developer in your area and pay a decent wage commensurate with the time taken to write good software (2500 $ isn't much even here in Bangalore, I think the guys is just taking you for a ride, unless the software is very simple in which case it can be rewritten trivially) .

Try to meet up with the developer every 3 or 4 days (or at least talk on the phone) and as someone mentioned here, own the repository he checks into.

Good Luck!

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#55

Post by Yoric »

vaksel wrote: post #31
alecco wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simple...sue him. I beg to differ. As an entrepreneur, this path would cost time and money. $2500 can't be such a big deal. Also, you'll never get support for the code by anybody else. As a programmer, I'd never work for anybody who sued a fellow programmer over disagreements (only possible case for excuse of this: trojan inside the code or backdoor.) You are part responsible because you hired the programmer, Next…

So whats your solution to getting the programmer to finish a 1-2 month project that's a year late?

Don't. Restart from scratch. If you continue with this programmer, he'll never support your code anyway.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#56

Post by com »

brl wrote: post #48
menloparkbum wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unintuitive, but most software contracts do not explicitly give the buyer the IP. It doesn't sound like either of the parties involved know what they are doing, so it's unlikely the contract gives the buyer any power over the IP.

A contract is only valid if something is exchanged in both directions. This is a legal principle called consideration, and in the absence of consideration a contract has no legal legitimacy. Without some transfer of IP rights either by copyright assignment or by bare license I don't see what consideration would be for a contract to produce custom software. If the contract is determined to be invalid the buyer can the…

What precisely is transferred depends on the contract and the legal jurisdiction.

I have some clients that were gypped for a lot more than USD2.5k - they thought they were getting the IP and instead they were getting a non-transferable license to use (and the software was buggy and had - appallingly - developer backdoors and remote off-switches).

Explicit terms in contracts is a very smart move; don't assume anything about what the local version of contract and tort law will deliver to you.

Of course, off-shored development makes it all a bit more complicated - which party actually holds source code and can be sued? It's a bit of a mine-field.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#57

Post by brl »

vaksel wrote: post #7

Simple...sue him. Dude I'm in your exact situation...hired someone to do a project, and he is now a year late. I gave the guy concession after concession just to get him to finish...hell I cut about 70% of the features just to have him finish quicker. And told him...as long as he finish quickly I'd waive the late fees. You can't work with these people...even after all my concessions the guy still gave me major attitu…

> Simple...sue him.

That's probably not going to help the OP achieve what he really wants, getting his software finished.

The programmer he hired agreed to do the work for about $8 / hour. Not sure a lawsuit can possibly make sense from an economic perspective since people that work for near minimum wage don't have a lot of extra cash to cough up for monetary damages.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#58

Post by andreyf »

froo wrote: post #6
allenbrunson wrote: post #4

okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable. second, getting someone to "reverse engineer" an existing app is a very bad idea. you're already in a bad situation, that would make it even worse. assuming you find someone to do this, they are going to be morally questionable. i, for one, would never agree to do su…

okay, first, you can't use html in an hn post for formatting. you should go back and add two-return-key paragraph breaks, so your post will be readable. I had the exact same thing happen to me the other day when trying to submit a poll, it popped up tags all over the place, so I'm sure it's not the guys fault. I had to go back and edit the thread to make it readable after someone pointed it out to me.

It's customary to quote text using italics (that's * around text). Four spaces are for code.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#59

Post by vaksel »

Yoric wrote: post #55
vaksel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whats your solution to getting the programmer to finish a 1-2 month project that's a year late?

Don't. Restart from scratch. If you continue with this programmer, he'll never support your code anyway.

Thats what I'm saying. I'm not saying sue him to get him to finish, I'm saying sue him to recover the money.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#60

Post by natch »

There is a lot to say on this, but much of it has already been said. I'll add just one thing:

An important red flag (among all the others in your post) is the statement that he is "almost" done.

When any programmer thinks about that statement, it's almost certain to elicit a belly laugh.

If he appears to be "almost" done, it is highly likely that he is really around 50% done. Keeping that in mind should help you make your decision to walk away.

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