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Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

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Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#21

Post by alecco »

vaksel wrote: post #7

Simple...sue him. Dude I'm in your exact situation...hired someone to do a project, and he is now a year late. I gave the guy concession after concession just to get him to finish...hell I cut about 70% of the features just to have him finish quicker. And told him...as long as he finish quickly I'd waive the late fees. You can't work with these people...even after all my concessions the guy still gave me major attitu…

> Simple...sue him.

I beg to differ. As an entrepreneur, this path would cost time and money. $2500 can't be such a big deal. Also, you'll never get support for the code by anybody else. As a programmer, I'd never work for anybody who sued a fellow programmer over disagreements (only possible case for excuse of this: trojan inside the code or backdoor.) You are part responsible because you hired the programmer,

Next time perhaps you should use a site like rentacoder, elance, or topcoder. And learn first how people use it, it is a tool to help you out, not a one-click solution.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#22

Post by daemon »

I hire developers from time to time. I avoid the situation you are currently experiencing by asking for a development plan which includes milestones and a requirement for "reasonably" documented source code. After agreeing on a price, the fee is split based on the milestones, and paid as code is checked-in and the milestones are reached. If the developer doesn't meet the schedule or decides to bail on the project, then another developer can pick up where the previous "coder" left off.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#23

Post by mustpax »

vaksel wrote: post #7

Simple...sue him. Dude I'm in your exact situation...hired someone to do a project, and he is now a year late. I gave the guy concession after concession just to get him to finish...hell I cut about 70% of the features just to have him finish quicker. And told him...as long as he finish quickly I'd waive the late fees. You can't work with these people...even after all my concessions the guy still gave me major attitu…

Exactly.

Does your contract with engineer cover the very likely case of the project being delayed? I mean, most projects out there are subject to delays or budget overruns. Writing software is unpredictable business. If your contract does not make any provisions about this, that's very unfortunate but I'm sure you won't make the same mistake next time.

If your contract does cover it, then what you're entitled to is specified therein. Trying to reverse engineer the software so you can sidestep these provisions is very questionable, and would also expose you to litigation.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#24

Post by indiejade »

pixpox3 wrote: post #10
indiejade wrote: post #8

I've hired a coder to create me a desktop app using JAVA swing that I planned to sell. You might be asking for advice in the wrong place. If you want to make money selling desktop apps, the advice you'll likely get from this crowd is "learn how to do it yourself." Otherwise, give your coder at least a 50 percent interest in all of the proceeds from this app. Given what you tell us of his reaction, it sounds like you…

I appreciate that I can't write code, he has a skill I don't have. But I hired him to do it, he agreed a price, but hes now almost a year late and despite me offering him bonuses, 10% of the profits, hes still holding me to ransom and wanting more. If I hire someone to build a house they don't get insulted when I offer them 10% of future rental yields. How can it be insulting to offer a percentage which wasn't even i…

If I hire someone to build a house they don't get insulted when I offer them 10% of future rental yields. How can it be insulting to offer a percentage which wasn't even in the initial agreement?

Maybe you're thinking about it in the wrong way. If you were to commission somebody to create a painting, you wouldn't paint over his or her name, scribble your own over it, and try to take credit for the work, would you? Even if you bought an unsigned piece of artwork for investment, you wouldn't go around telling people you created it, would you?

Sometimes it all boils down to something as simple as respect or attribution. If this desktop app is the next big thing, the coder probably just wants to at the very least make sure that he gets some kind of acknowledgment for his work. For some, acknowledgment can be as simple as ensuring nobody rips off their code and reverse-engineers it, and stamps a different name on it. For others, it is about monetary compensation.

I don't know what this dude's deal is, but of all the factors in your little moneymaking scheme, having the ability to write working code is probably the most valuable. 10 percent doesn't seem like a very equitable exchange.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#25

Post by noodle »

what does the contract that i hope you got signed say?

if you didn't get a contract signed, you kind of brought this on yourself. if you did and he's violating the terms, take him to small claims court.

if there isn't a contract, consider walking away and finding someone else to do it.

i'd highly suggest avoiding rentacoder and simlar sites. they do not typically produce high quality work, and there is often a language barrier issue.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#26

Post by habibur »

pixpox3 wrote: post #10
indiejade wrote: post #8

I've hired a coder to create me a desktop app using JAVA swing that I planned to sell. You might be asking for advice in the wrong place. If you want to make money selling desktop apps, the advice you'll likely get from this crowd is "learn how to do it yourself." Otherwise, give your coder at least a 50 percent interest in all of the proceeds from this app. Given what you tell us of his reaction, it sounds like you…

I appreciate that I can't write code, he has a skill I don't have. But I hired him to do it, he agreed a price, but hes now almost a year late and despite me offering him bonuses, 10% of the profits, hes still holding me to ransom and wanting more. If I hire someone to build a house they don't get insulted when I offer them 10% of future rental yields. How can it be insulting to offer a percentage which wasn't even i…

A programmer views "a year late" as, makeing him do more work than he was contacted to do. House construction doesn't work that way. You hand over a detail plan diagram and the contructor develops exactly that. One doesn't break down half the house after it's 80% done to build it a different way and check how it looks. Though that happens frequently in software development.

Most probably than not, this programmer can work a year more on this project and still not "finish" it in real sence. Specially if there was no specific finishing point mentioned in the agreement.

Software rarely gets finished. All these might be the programmer's point of view, just wanted to mention.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#27

Post by froo »

lucumo wrote: post #18
pixpox3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I've put enough time into this (not to mention money!) that makes it very hard to do that...

It may be emotionally hard to cut your losses, but it may be economically sound. There's a concept in economics called "sunk costs". You can't recover your investment, so whatever your choice, the money's gone. The only choice you have at this point is: do you continue or do you stop? Since it looks like you have to pay more for continuing (and maybe even more after that) you should contrast that to the costs of star…

  There's a concept in economics called "sunk costs"
In Poker its called "knowing when to fold"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_(poker)#Fold

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#28

Post by mannicken »

Have you paid anything yet? Don't.

Drop him. Here are two good reasons to drop him:

1. You are wasting your time -- I don't think he'll give you anything, or you'll end up spending so much money that profits are unreasonable.

2. Even if he does, what guarantee is there that there is no "surprise" hidden in the code? I have seen freelancers do that when they're disappointed in the buyer.

Find another guy and learn from your mistakes:

a) Pay weekly, based on milestones.

b) Setup a Subversion repository and do a mandatory weekly commits. No commits, no money.

c) Ask for a very short but functional proof-of-concept first, once it works and you have received source -- pay money by this formula: $ = rate x hours.

There is no trust between you and freelancer and you should never work without at least a bit of trust and understanding of each other.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#29

Post by huhtenberg »

A reality check for you.

First, $2500 covers 50 hours of work. Do you think your app can be written in that timeframe ? Hardly. So this amount is not a compensation, it's more of a marginally attractive retainer.

Second, the 10% share is a joke. The reason being is that if there is a written app, then 10% commission gets you a simple e-com distribution (shopping cart, invoicing, payment processing). The 30% commission buys you a "fire and forget" kind of deal - you give the distributor an app, they brand it, promote, market and sell it and they also provide front-line support. THIRTY PERCENT.

You effectively offered a guy a 90% commission deal and now seem to be surprised he isn't happy. I wonder why.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#30

Post by jneal »

"It currently authenticates the user on startup using a script on his server." Wow, ridiculous. This should definitely be changed before project completion. You need to get more stuff in writing from the sounds of it. I don't want to scare you, but from the sounds of this post, I don't see things working out in a positive way.
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