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Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

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Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#111

Post by nviarnes »

networked wrote: post #77
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a form of "tonic immobility" in sharks (chickens have the same reaction if held whilst looking at a line drawn away from them) It's an attempt to feign death / stand immobile whilst danger passes. Its effective in sharks as they need water passing over their gills so if they stop swimming they are dependant on current. Of course orcas are big enough to turn a shark over - your average guy in a chain mail suit…

Since the great white shark needs to move to breathe [1] I assume that holding one long enough would cause it to suffocate, right? [1] http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/marine-life/shark-d...

As someone who has seen a great white shark underwater from 15 feet away (shark caging), I can safely say that there is no human alive capable of holding a great white shark still. There is simply no stopping a 20ft long, 4000lb., aquatic dinosaur. Unless you're an orca I suppose.

One of the most impressive and intimidating animals I have ever seen.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#112

Post by duck »

stcredzero wrote: post #47
srean wrote: post #6

They are also known to build difficult to make toys (air bubble vortex rings) to entertain themselves. They have to discover how to make it. Sometimes they can be quite possessive, they would break the toy if someone not so knowledgeable wants to play with it. Once a dolphin figures it out how to make one, his/her peers eventually figure it out too. So it kind of spreads within a group like fashion. This behavior has…

> They also have what appears to be fratricide were they bludgeon another to death targeting vital organs Apparently Orcas have developed this Kung-fu like thing, where they can kill a shark by just holding it . http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-g...

I found it odd that the author thought that was cruel of the Orcas. I assume they are referring to the waste, but that is pretty common for all animals.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#113

Post by stuffihavemade »

stcredzero wrote: post #43

> Bottlenose dolphins call out the specific names of loved ones when they become separated, a study finds. ...Holy, f^~kin crap! We've been in the presence of other sentients this whole time. Enslaved them. Killed them while gathering food. Holy, f^~kin crap!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test#Animal_species_capa...

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#114

Post by eitland »

yareally wrote: post #109
eitland wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around here there is a saying that crows can count to 2. So as the story goes: If you are going to hunt crows from a shed you should walk 4 men into the shed and then 3 should leave. Then the crow will count one, two, many men went in and many men went out and will consider the shed empty. I don't know if it is real but I have heard it from farmers/ around where I grew up. Then again: Crows aren't too intelligent, th…

I wouldn't call some crows falling for a trap a clear indication of not being intelligent as there are probably many that also avoid it. Even humans fall for obvious traps again and again that many of us also avoid (phishing, Nigerian scams, pyramid schemes, link jacking, etc). Not trying to be a defender of animal intelligence, just playing devil advocate for the sake of good, intelligent conversation :)

> Not trying to be a defender of animal intelligence, just playing devil advocate for the sake of good, intelligent conversation :)

And I really enjoyed it. : )

  Greasemonkey Gerbil
  Looking at the mouse trap.
  Looking at the spring, thinking 'bout the bait.
  Understands everything.
  But not the link.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#115

Post by prawn »

bilbo0s wrote: post #62
prawn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there is a wider gap between the smartest and dumbest humans, and the equivalent extremes in other species? At our best, we accomplish astonishing things that melt brains to consider. However, the worst of us really are little more than what they would call (with derision) "animals", responding to base urges and the like, but dangerous, vindictive and controlling.

"...dangerous, vindictive and controlling..." I think the low end of human "intelligence" is something other than what you are talking about here. I think the low end of human "intelligence" would generally be associated with something more akin to mental retardation. Whereas what you're pointing out is more... like the behavior of a sociopath. Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intellig…

Maybe it's not that, at our worst, we're capable of being so much worse than animals, but that we can just do it so well. Or the disappointment that many could do better with a little thought, but don't think much. And there are probably comparative examples of each thing in the "animal kingdom" too.

Resorting quickly to violence to get our way (schoolyard thugs) or to get revenge or to intimidate (posturing gangs). Setting up cultish situations to dominate women and reap rewards of power, money and more (creepy sects). Online bullying (all over the place), gossip, etc.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#116

Post by ekianjo »

yareally wrote: post #106
ekianjo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not have to go back very far to find barbary even in our civilization ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert-Fran%C3%A7ois_Damiens ) and this happened in the same century as the human rights philosophers. That was just a few generations ago.

Heh, that's funny, I was just watching a 3 part BBC Documentary on Versailles[1] (part 1 Louis XIV, part 2 Louis XV, part 3 Louis XVI). They talked quite a bit about Louis XV's attempted assassination and Damiens. From what was said, most other countries were appalled at the execution style. I'd still say The Terror and Great Terror during the French Revolution were far more barbaric while masquerading in the name of…

> I'd still say The Terror and Great Terror during the French Revolution were far more barbaric while masquerading in the name of enlightenment though

Totally agree with you, and I certainly despise the national celebration of that hideous genocide (and there is no other word for it) called "the revolution" although I am French myself.

By the way, Robespierre was not the only one responsible (Marat, St-Just and others come to mind), and even Danton who was considered as a more moderate representative certainly did not do anything to stop the ongoing massacers and also used the "comite de salut public" to arrest and guillotine political opponents as well.

Yet, you still find streets, avenues, boulevards, schools wearing the name of such butchers all over France.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#117

Post by ekianjo »

mapt wrote: post #110
ekianjo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine. I am not sure I understand why you think this way.

Lying, manipulating, and tricking ("outsmarting") others require considerable theory of mind, persuasive ability, creativity, and conscientious problem-solving execution. A dumb person is not able to perform these activities well.

Understanding others, showing sympathy and compassion, being capable of working with other people with a common goal without conflict certainly require wits as well. Don't you think? It was even supposed not so long ago that dog brains grew larger over time because of their constant social contact with humans.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#118

Post by ekianjo »

eitland wrote: post #101
ekianjo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine. I am not sure I understand why you think this way.

Because history (esp. European history I guess) will show you that brilliant techies have done really cruel things.

Yet history shows that the greatest "techies" (Kepler, Newton, Galileo, and others) did not work alone and were certainly depending on others to establish their theories and measurements - and many were very much "humanists" and universal thinkers who cared very little about politics and frontiers. Even Einstein who was a key player in developing nuclear power was against any use of it in military conflict. So, I would like to see your list of brilliant and yet cruel techies.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#119

Post by yareally »

ekianjo wrote: post #116
yareally wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, that's funny, I was just watching a 3 part BBC Documentary on Versailles[1] (part 1 Louis XIV, part 2 Louis XV, part 3 Louis XVI). They talked quite a bit about Louis XV's attempted assassination and Damiens. From what was said, most other countries were appalled at the execution style. I'd still say The Terror and Great Terror during the French Revolution were far more barbaric while masquerading in the name of…

> I'd still say The Terror and Great Terror during the French Revolution were far more barbaric while masquerading in the name of enlightenment though Totally agree with you, and I certainly despise the national celebration of that hideous genocide (and there is no other word for it) called "the revolution" although I am French myself. By the way, Robespierre was not the only one responsible (Marat, St-Just and other…

Yep, all very true and totally agree. Never just one individual responsible, I just dropped the name of the biggest one for the sake of briefness. I think it was Danton that said something like, "My only regret is to go before that rat Robespierre" when he was giving his last words after being arrested for realizing how screwed up the revolution had become with his and other's control of The Committee of Public Safety.

Also pains me to see (at least at the time, not sure if it's true anymore [perhaps you can elaborate on the public view of Marat now for me] ) that Jean-Paul Marat was made out to be a martyr on his death instead of despised for his role in fueling the flames. I'm not French (some day I will visit when I can), but I do have a large interest in French History (and European History in general) as well as revolutions and how people act during them. Revolutions kind of serve as a reminder of how little human nature changes during a time period that is meant to change humanity for the better. It unfortunately seems to repeat itself with nearly every revolution since, which is ashame.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#120

Post by InclinedPlane »

mtrimpe wrote: post #3

Dolphins are exactly why I feel SETI is such a misguided (in a sweet way) effort. Here we are, searching for extraterrestrial intelligence while we can't even communicate with the other intelligent species on our own planet. Glad to see we're making progress though!

An intelligent species is different from a technological one, by a huge magnitude. That's not to say that dolphins aren't worthwhile to communicate with but there will never be a dolphin shakespeare, or pythagoras, or einstein, or da vinci. The options for being able to communicate with a technological species are astronomically greater than with a non-technological intelligent species.
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