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Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

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Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#71

Post by mjmahone17 »

pvaldes wrote: post #61
gruseom wrote: post #12

John Lilly, who spent years working with dolphins, believed that they were smart enough to be cute and friendly to humans because they understood how dangerous we were.

Not necessarily. Most of the time the people think about how cute is a dolphin is misunderstanding the animal. If a Lion shows you the teeth, you don't think is a cute kitty, is angry!, but, hey, this dolphin that show us the teeth "is smiling"!. This "smile" is in fact an agressive display in the wild. Being faster, well armed, and better fitted for water, a dolphin can avoid dangerous humans in the water any time h…

On the other hand, animals that are domesticated become "cuter." Look at the Russian fox domestication program (and the mirror aggressiveness program). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

These foxes actually share a good number of features with dogs and humans: it may be that, because dolphins are such social creatures, we perceive them as cute because they are more or less domesticated.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#72

Post by [deleted] »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #64
stcredzero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also have what appears to be fratricide were they bludgeon another to death targeting vital organs Apparently Orcas have developed this Kung-fu like thing, where they can kill a shark by just holding it . http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-g...

This is a form of "tonic immobility" in sharks (chickens have the same reaction if held whilst looking at a line drawn away from them) It's an attempt to feign death / stand immobile whilst danger passes. Its effective in sharks as they need water passing over their gills so if they stop swimming they are dependant on current. Of course orcas are big enough to turn a shark over - your average guy in a chain mail suit…

[deleted]

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#73

Post by [deleted] »

stcredzero wrote: post #47
srean wrote: post #6

They are also known to build difficult to make toys (air bubble vortex rings) to entertain themselves. They have to discover how to make it. Sometimes they can be quite possessive, they would break the toy if someone not so knowledgeable wants to play with it. Once a dolphin figures it out how to make one, his/her peers eventually figure it out too. So it kind of spreads within a group like fashion. This behavior has…

> They also have what appears to be fratricide were they bludgeon another to death targeting vital organs Apparently Orcas have developed this Kung-fu like thing, where they can kill a shark by just holding it . http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-g...

[deleted]

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#74

Post by stcredzero »

UnFleshedOne wrote: post #59
stcredzero wrote: post #43

> Bottlenose dolphins call out the specific names of loved ones when they become separated, a study finds. ...Holy, f^~kin crap! We've been in the presence of other sentients this whole time. Enslaved them. Killed them while gathering food. Holy, f^~kin crap!

We've been constantly killing and enslaving sentients while gathering food and resources ever since humans became sentient themselves. Still do. On the other hand, one could say that a species killing and exploiting their own is internal problem of that species, while doing that to another intelligent species is morally worse on some level.

> We've been constantly killing and enslaving sentients while gathering food and resources ever since humans became sentient themselves. Still do.

Yes, but the bastards that are doing that know they are doing that.

> On the other hand, one could say that a species killing and exploiting their own is internal problem of that species, while doing that to another intelligent species is morally worse on some level.

And realizing that it's been happening unknowingly is another kind of mindf^~k as well!

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#75

Post by jasonzemos »

mtrimpe wrote: post #3

Dolphins are exactly why I feel SETI is such a misguided (in a sweet way) effort. Here we are, searching for extraterrestrial intelligence while we can't even communicate with the other intelligent species on our own planet. Glad to see we're making progress though!

This is a healthy sentiment that shows respect for the otherness of the other. I do think SETI is still necessary only because the empirical platform that all life shares is universal -- the radio spectrum, physics -- it's the same for all species. But this thread still clearly deserves some quotes from Stanislaw Lem:

"We don't want to conquer the cosmos, we simply want to extend the boundaries of Earth to the frontiers of the cosmos."

"We are only seeking Man. We have no need of other worlds. We need mirrors. We don't know what to do with other worlds."

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#76

Post by krapp »

noonespecial wrote: post #56
srean wrote: post #6

They are also known to build difficult to make toys (air bubble vortex rings) to entertain themselves. They have to discover how to make it. Sometimes they can be quite possessive, they would break the toy if someone not so knowledgeable wants to play with it. Once a dolphin figures it out how to make one, his/her peers eventually figure it out too. So it kind of spreads within a group like fashion. This behavior has…

I wonder (seriously) if I learned to create these rings myself, would I earn mad dolphin cred?

Once humans can do it, it's probably no longer cool.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#77

Post by networked »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #64
stcredzero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They also have what appears to be fratricide were they bludgeon another to death targeting vital organs Apparently Orcas have developed this Kung-fu like thing, where they can kill a shark by just holding it . http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-g...

This is a form of "tonic immobility" in sharks (chickens have the same reaction if held whilst looking at a line drawn away from them) It's an attempt to feign death / stand immobile whilst danger passes. Its effective in sharks as they need water passing over their gills so if they stop swimming they are dependant on current. Of course orcas are big enough to turn a shark over - your average guy in a chain mail suit…

Since the great white shark needs to move to breathe [1] I assume that holding one long enough would cause it to suffocate, right?

[1] http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/marine-life/shark-d...

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#78

Post by krapp »

WiseWeasel wrote: post #35
rwhitman wrote: post #28

I bet there would be economic opportunity in developing commercial dolphin-human communication software and interfaces. Imagine how much benefit to deep sea construction and exploration there would be if training and employing dolphins using natural language was possible. Or to shipping, fishing etc.

Dolphin-based sitcoms where the dolphin says "it's a living" and shrugs his dolphin shoulders.

When we uplift them, we'll have to remember to give them shoulders. And eyebrows. Good comedy depends on eyebrows.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#79

Post by dfc »

leoh wrote: post #44

Last year around this time, I had the opportunity to interact with two dolphins in captivity. Being with them, they felt so present and warm, like being around a perceptive old friend. I had never had that experience with an animal before, except fellow humans. It's something I will never forget.

I take it that you are not a dog person?

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#80

Post by icegreentea »

mjmahone17 wrote: post #71
pvaldes wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Most of the time the people think about how cute is a dolphin is misunderstanding the animal. If a Lion shows you the teeth, you don't think is a cute kitty, is angry!, but, hey, this dolphin that show us the teeth "is smiling"!. This "smile" is in fact an agressive display in the wild. Being faster, well armed, and better fitted for water, a dolphin can avoid dangerous humans in the water any time h…

On the other hand, animals that are domesticated become "cuter." Look at the Russian fox domestication program (and the mirror aggressiveness program). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox These foxes actually share a good number of features with dogs and humans: it may be that, because dolphins are such social creatures, we perceive them as cute because they are more or less domesticated.

A suspected reason why domesticated animals cuter is the ideal that traits that are typically selected are traits found in youth. The general term for this is neoteny [1], which is where youthful traits are held on to into adult life.

Typical traits selected for are reduced aggression and increased docility. The hypothesis is that the animals that displayed these traits likely also had a variety of other relatively child-like traits, such as larger heads, larger foreheads (I guess this might be why dolphins look so darn cute), larger eyes, floppy ears, and etc - on the basis that the set of genes that control the development of adult traits are typically linked together.

The result being that as we selected for the tamest animals, we also selected those that were cuter. It's kind of circular in that traits that make things cute are typically those that are found as young - the young form of most animals sharing the same general 'cute' features.

One thing of note is that the concept of neoteny is often invoked to explain how humans diverged so rapidly from the other primates. If you accept that explanation, and take the idea a bit further, then you end up with a somewhat bizarre and perhaps disturbing idea that humans are actually the result of self-domesticating primates (obviously a gross over simplification... but kind of a fun thought to play around with).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny

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