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Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

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Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#91

Post by ww520 »

mjmahone17 wrote: post #71
pvaldes wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Most of the time the people think about how cute is a dolphin is misunderstanding the animal. If a Lion shows you the teeth, you don't think is a cute kitty, is angry!, but, hey, this dolphin that show us the teeth "is smiling"!. This "smile" is in fact an agressive display in the wild. Being faster, well armed, and better fitted for water, a dolphin can avoid dangerous humans in the water any time h…

On the other hand, animals that are domesticated become "cuter." Look at the Russian fox domestication program (and the mirror aggressiveness program). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox These foxes actually share a good number of features with dogs and humans: it may be that, because dolphins are such social creatures, we perceive them as cute because they are more or less domesticated.

What's amazing about the silver fox domestication experiment was that it used ONE selection criteria - flight distance (the distance a human can approach an animal before it runs away) to do selective breeding. After tens of generations, the foxes were domesticated and most of the traits of a domesticated animals such as cuteness came along as side effects.

It was a great experiment showing a simple selection rule can generate complex evolution result.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#92

Post by clebio »

gruseom wrote: post #12

John Lilly, who spent years working with dolphins, believed that they were smart enough to be cute and friendly to humans because they understood how dangerous we were.

Thanks for mentioning Lilly. His book on his studies of dolphins* was a good read when I picked it up a decade or so ago. The comparison of brain- to body-mass across humans, elephants, and dolphins was compelling, alone.

* http://www.amazon.com/Communication-Between-Dolphin-John-Lil...

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#93

Post by bmuon »

crucialfelix wrote: post #29

I went through a Cetacean and cephalopods obsession last year. What really freaks me out is what Dolphins looked like when they were still land animals: http://understanddolphins.tripod.com/dolphinevolution.html Also the perceptual systems of octopus and squid are amazing. Cuttlefish can perceive the polarization of light. This helps for contrast and edge detection. Many Cephalopods (octopuses, squid, cuttlefish) can…

Go hang around sea lions next time. Their social structure is a lot of fun to watch and they really look like water-oriented dogs.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#95

Post by ekianjo »

bilbo0s wrote: post #62
prawn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there is a wider gap between the smartest and dumbest humans, and the equivalent extremes in other species? At our best, we accomplish astonishing things that melt brains to consider. However, the worst of us really are little more than what they would call (with derision) "animals", responding to base urges and the like, but dangerous, vindictive and controlling.

"...dangerous, vindictive and controlling..." I think the low end of human "intelligence" is something other than what you are talking about here. I think the low end of human "intelligence" would generally be associated with something more akin to mental retardation. Whereas what you're pointing out is more... like the behavior of a sociopath. Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intellig…

> Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine.

I am not sure I understand why you think this way.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#96

Post by ekianjo »

mjmahone17 wrote: post #66
shmageggy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just modern culture, but really for the history of civilization. In fact, discoveries like these are starting to make us more empathetic, finally. During the 18th century, not only were all non-humans considered mindless automatons, many humans were too. The early descriptions of indigenous people by the European whites are pretty appalling.

It's ironic in its own way, given how many (not all, but many) of the indigineous groups treated animals and their ecosystems with more respect than they were given by other humans. In a lot of ways, it seems like we're having to relearn a lot of the values that cultures with longer histories have known for hundreds of years.

Let's be careful about "values from cultures with longer histories". They may have had good values but that did not prevent them from slaughtering each other all the same. Some american indians were known to be very violent yet very much in harmony with nature. So, what good does it do in the end?

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#97

Post by alan_cx »

javajosh wrote: post #22

I will wager money that their names translate to things like: Big nose Funny tail Horny boy Big mamma Deep swimmer Not just amusing, but also useful. By correlating individual behaviors and physical features with names, we might be able to unlock dolphin language! Which would be incredible!

Great idea. We humans were named after many characteristics. Jobs, what we see when the child is born, what kinds of personality we want our children to have, etc.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#98

Post by yareally »

ekianjo wrote: post #96
mjmahone17 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic in its own way, given how many (not all, but many) of the indigineous groups treated animals and their ecosystems with more respect than they were given by other humans. In a lot of ways, it seems like we're having to relearn a lot of the values that cultures with longer histories have known for hundreds of years.

Let's be careful about "values from cultures with longer histories". They may have had good values but that did not prevent them from slaughtering each other all the same. Some american indians were known to be very violent yet very much in harmony with nature. So, what good does it do in the end?

> So, what good does it do in the end?

Adopt the good ideas of the past and avoid (and learn from) the mistakes of the past so we do not repeat them. One can respect the environment and animals without smashing heads. Pretty much every culture has had a violent past at some point, even cultures like the Romans and the Greeks were rather barbaric by modern standards (especially the Romans). Our descendants will probably think the same about us to a point as well in a couple hundred years.

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#99

Post by alan_cx »

ekianjo wrote: post #95
bilbo0s wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...dangerous, vindictive and controlling..." I think the low end of human "intelligence" is something other than what you are talking about here. I think the low end of human "intelligence" would generally be associated with something more akin to mental retardation. Whereas what you're pointing out is more... like the behavior of a sociopath. Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intellig…

> Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine. I am not sure I understand why you think this way.

Because he doesn't equate "intelligence" with "good".

Re: Dolphins Call Each Other By Name

#100

Post by ekianjo »

yareally wrote: post #98
ekianjo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be careful about "values from cultures with longer histories". They may have had good values but that did not prevent them from slaughtering each other all the same. Some american indians were known to be very violent yet very much in harmony with nature. So, what good does it do in the end?

> So, what good does it do in the end? Adopt the good ideas of the past and avoid (and learn from) the mistakes of the past so we do not repeat them. One can respect the environment and animals without smashing heads. Pretty much every culture has had a violent past at some point, even cultures like the Romans and the Greeks were rather barbaric by modern standards (especially the Romans). Our descendants will probab…

You do not have to go back very far to find barbary even in our civilization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert-Fran%C3%A7ois_Damiens) and this happened in the same century as the human rights philosophers. That was just a few generations ago.
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