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Death in Singapore

ft.com

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Re: Death in Singapore

#51

Post by gurkendoktor »

philh wrote: post #42
agilord wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've visited Singapore just for a few days, but based on that experiment, the western media is overdoing this Singapore-bashing. I'd strongly suggest to visit the country, or at least get familiar with its history, its surrounding neighbors, theirs relationships, theirs relative cultural and economical differences. After that you will understand them better, and you will realize that its not that black-and-white as t…

> I've visited Singapore just for a few days, but based on that experiment I spent a couple of weeks in the US, and never ran afoul of bad cops or drug laws. I conclude very little from this, because even if things are as bad as reddit says, I would not expect to run afoul of those things in such a short time if I'm not breaking any major laws. What bad things would you expect to see in just a few days, if the wester…

I'm not sure if the grandparent post really meant it that way. It's not that you don't see anything bad while you are in Singapore, it's that you get a feeling for Singapore's situation. I've only been in Singapore for a short bit and I've met ethnic Chinese who were plenty happy to live in safe Singapore now, and not in the neighboring countries anymore (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_13_Incident)

Re: Death in Singapore

#52

Post by jacques_chester »

venus wrote: post #8
homosaur wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, then what exactly would you call it? You are essentially subject to all manner of ridiculous punishment for what would be considered minor or non-offenses in most free countries. Most of their elections are uncontested. You can dress it up because their streets are clean and safe, but it's still facism.

> You are essentially subject to all manner of ridiculous punishment for what would be considered minor or non-offenses in most free countries Like vandalism and petty theft. And just look at how successful those "free countries" have been in addressing those categories of crime! What you call "ridiculous" is simply what you have been conditioned to think, no more. Elsewhere in the world it might be called "effective…

> And just look at how successful those "free countries" have been in addressing those categories of crime!

The crime rate in Western countries, including the US, has been falling steadily since the 90s. Given the differences in cultures and legal frameworks ... nobody is really certain why.

Re: Death in Singapore

#53

Post by homosaur »

buster wrote: post #43
homosaur wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, then what exactly would you call it? You are essentially subject to all manner of ridiculous punishment for what would be considered minor or non-offenses in most free countries. Most of their elections are uncontested. You can dress it up because their streets are clean and safe, but it's still facism.

I'd describe Singapore strict laws just as effective and strict but in exchange you get a very safe and clean country, no drugs, no garbage, no theft. That's ok with me if (and only if) those laws are not exploited by the government. i don't think this is really the case in Singapore, at least not more then in the U.S. or european countries. Compared to the surrounding countries Singapore is like _the_ safe place and…

I don't think their laws are necessarily brutal, but their enforcement of those laws is. They view people who break the taboo of law as people who should be handled with the full force of the state.

And personally I like drugs.

Re: Death in Singapore

#54

Post by homosaur »

jasonlingx wrote: post #44
sses wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my coworkers had an off by one error when booking a return flight and overstayed his visa by a day (not in Singapore). So yes, it happens by accident. The idea that he should be caned as a result is ludicrous.

You only get caned if you overstay by more than 90 days in Singapore.

Oh well then that totally makes it okay.

Re: Death in Singapore

#55

Post by jasonlingx »

jlgreco wrote: post #45
jasonlingx wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosophy that will never be bridged. The US kills its own citizens without trial using hellfire missiles in drone strikes. So what's the difference?

If the US is fucked up, that makes it okay for others to be fucked up as well? Surely you don't mean that, so I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I was responding to his statement "This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosophy that will never be bridged."

Re: Death in Singapore

#56

Post by seanmcdirmid »

agilord wrote: post #22
homosaur wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, then what exactly would you call it? You are essentially subject to all manner of ridiculous punishment for what would be considered minor or non-offenses in most free countries. Most of their elections are uncontested. You can dress it up because their streets are clean and safe, but it's still facism.

I've visited Singapore just for a few days, but based on that experiment, the western media is overdoing this Singapore-bashing. I'd strongly suggest to visit the country, or at least get familiar with its history, its surrounding neighbors, theirs relationships, theirs relative cultural and economical differences. After that you will understand them better, and you will realize that its not that black-and-white as t…

Come spend a few days in China and you will find that it is a modern country that values human rights with no corruption and lots of social harmony.

Of course, the truth is a bit more nuanced than that.

Re: Death in Singapore

#57

Post by homosaur »

AlexeiSadeski wrote: post #29
HeyImAlex wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually read the entire story? While I'm wary of anything I read on the internet, if FT is being completely truthful you can't help but think that things are a bit odd. From the beginning I felt like it was probably just grieving parents gripping at straws, but the strangeness just kept piling up...

Things are odd, yes, but I imagine that suicide cases are quite frequently odd...

I guess that means "no, I didn't read it."

Re: Death in Singapore

#58

Post by PeterisP »

wilfra wrote: post #50
throwawaysnipe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some replies to parent dispute the 'police state' moniker. Decide for yourself: (Source: http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/singap... . Points below are all direct quotes) * Singapore's Internal Security Act (ISA) and Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act permit the authorities to arrest and detain suspects for virtually unlimited periods of time without charge or judicial review. * The Misuse of…

While these aren't good, they don't refute the commonly held belief that Singapore is essentially free from corruption. Human rights is another issue and on this they do very badly. They are among the worst places in the World to get arrested for basically anything and they have harsh laws that restrict all sorts of personal freedoms. But that's not corruption.

Well, the article in no way actually implies corruption.

If the men in power decided that Shane's death needed to be covered up, and the men in uniforms followed orders - then that is exactly how a non-corrupt police state works; you have strict order but that order doesn't neccessarily favor the people.

A corrupt state would have the relevant police officer be bribed individually and/or extracting favors from the relatives; corruption requires weak structure, where the system is centralised in theory but decentralised in practice, as decisions are made or changed by corrupt officials. But if the authority decides to do an evil thing and the system executes it without question - then that's a perfect example of an efficient, noncorrupt police state that achieves it's goals and spits at the costs.

Re: Death in Singapore

#59

Post by homosaur »

contingencies wrote: post #30

Fellow hackers: stay away from anything connected to the defence industry. Security might be fun, it might pay well, but the ethics are terrible, things get used for bad purposes, and you can easily lose your freedom or worse.

Amen, my friend.

Money: not fuckin' worth it.

Re: Death in Singapore

#60

Post by olalonde »

batgaijin wrote: post #17
venus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? How does that have any bearing on the story at hand whatsoever? As an entrepreneur who has seriously considered moving to singapore in the past I am much more interested in what can happen when you do obey their (quite reasonable) laws.

I think we all know if you're in asia stay as legal as possible. I'm just saying don't make an exception for Singapore.

FWIW, I overstayed my Chinese visa by one day and had to pay a ~90$ fine. I was on my way 5 minutes later.
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