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Death in Singapore

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Re: Death in Singapore

#41

Post by jasonlingx »

homosaur wrote: post #20
venus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporal punishment of petty crimes == fascism. Is that your thesis? I believe you to be quite misinformed in your understanding of fascism, freedom, and everything else. As far as I can see, the only "freedom" on offer in the society you hint at is the freedom to not be punished effectively for your crimes. Please, Americans: if you have to mention the word "freedom" in your argument then you are probably talking sh…

I was hoping after editing this reply like 5 times, you were going to come up with something here... So you only address the punishment issue, but you don't say a thing about the sham elections. And yes, I'd prefer to step in gum once a year than have some 20 year old kid get beaten because they didn't conform to my narrow societal goals. This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosop…

> This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosophy that will never be bridged.

The US kills its own citizens without trial using hellfire missiles in drone strikes. So what's the difference?

Re: Death in Singapore

#42

Post by philh »

agilord wrote: post #22
homosaur wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, then what exactly would you call it? You are essentially subject to all manner of ridiculous punishment for what would be considered minor or non-offenses in most free countries. Most of their elections are uncontested. You can dress it up because their streets are clean and safe, but it's still facism.

I've visited Singapore just for a few days, but based on that experiment, the western media is overdoing this Singapore-bashing. I'd strongly suggest to visit the country, or at least get familiar with its history, its surrounding neighbors, theirs relationships, theirs relative cultural and economical differences. After that you will understand them better, and you will realize that its not that black-and-white as t…

> I've visited Singapore just for a few days, but based on that experiment

I spent a couple of weeks in the US, and never ran afoul of bad cops or drug laws. I conclude very little from this, because even if things are as bad as reddit says, I would not expect to run afoul of those things in such a short time if I'm not breaking any major laws.

What bad things would you expect to see in just a few days, if the western media's Singapore bashing is not overblown?

Re: Death in Singapore

#43

Post by buster »

homosaur wrote: post #6
hboon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a police state. And in recent years, it has been shown that it isn't corruption-free either.

Really, then what exactly would you call it? You are essentially subject to all manner of ridiculous punishment for what would be considered minor or non-offenses in most free countries. Most of their elections are uncontested. You can dress it up because their streets are clean and safe, but it's still facism.

I'd describe Singapore strict laws just as effective and strict but in exchange you get a very safe and clean country, no drugs, no garbage, no theft. That's ok with me if (and only if) those laws are not exploited by the government. i don't think this is really the case in Singapore, at least not more then in the U.S. or european countries.

Compared to the surrounding countries Singapore is like _the_ safe place and not the other way around.

Re: Death in Singapore

#44

Post by jasonlingx »

sses wrote: post #40
venus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Good advice. I'm trying not to come across as some pro-authoritarianism masochist in this thread but am I really alone in thinking that there's some merit in deciding a set of laws, then enforcing them? Overstay your visa? Is that really a minor crime? Does that happen by accident? When was the last time you "accidentally" stayed more than 90 days in a foreign country? In my country, Australia, you'd be…

One of my coworkers had an off by one error when booking a return flight and overstayed his visa by a day (not in Singapore). So yes, it happens by accident. The idea that he should be caned as a result is ludicrous.

You only get caned if you overstay by more than 90 days in Singapore.

Re: Death in Singapore

#45

Post by jlgreco »

jasonlingx wrote: post #41
homosaur wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping after editing this reply like 5 times, you were going to come up with something here... So you only address the punishment issue, but you don't say a thing about the sham elections. And yes, I'd prefer to step in gum once a year than have some 20 year old kid get beaten because they didn't conform to my narrow societal goals. This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosop…

> This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosophy that will never be bridged. The US kills its own citizens without trial using hellfire missiles in drone strikes. So what's the difference?

If the US is fucked up, that makes it okay for others to be fucked up as well?

Surely you don't mean that, so I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

Re: Death in Singapore

#46

Post by [deleted] »

VexXtreme wrote: post #39

Sounds like a classic case of corporate murder. In the cozy world of web startups, we engineers have an incredible amount of freedom and control over our lives and what we do... but megacorps and companies connected to the defense/war industry are known for treating their engineers as fungible resources that can easily be disposed of once they get the job done. Sounds like something out of a hi-tech Tom Clancy spy no…

[deleted]

Re: Death in Singapore

#47

Post by homosaur »

jasonlingx wrote: post #41
homosaur wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping after editing this reply like 5 times, you were going to come up with something here... So you only address the punishment issue, but you don't say a thing about the sham elections. And yes, I'd prefer to step in gum once a year than have some 20 year old kid get beaten because they didn't conform to my narrow societal goals. This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosop…

> This is the difference between the west and the east. It is a chasm in philosophy that will never be bridged. The US kills its own citizens without trial using hellfire missiles in drone strikes. So what's the difference?

If you're looking for me to defend the U.S., you're going to be looking for a very, very, very long time. I'm as anti-drone, anti-police state as you will ever find a US citizen.

BUUUUUT, I will bite on one thing.

How many Americans have been killed by drones? A handful? How many of those were actively fighting for terrorist organizations? All of them.

Now I do think it's only a matter of time before the US turns that power inwards and starts flying drones over the US. The NYPD already has drones and no one is quite sure whether they're able/willing to equip them with "non-lethal" weapons very soon, but it hasn't happened yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore

This guy above me loves the fact that people are executed for marijuana possession, which is almost completely harmless physically, of negligible harm to society, and largely beneficial to health if not abused.

LOVES IT.

Re: Death in Singapore

#49

Post by michaelgrafl »

agilord wrote: post #22
homosaur wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, then what exactly would you call it? You are essentially subject to all manner of ridiculous punishment for what would be considered minor or non-offenses in most free countries. Most of their elections are uncontested. You can dress it up because their streets are clean and safe, but it's still facism.

I've visited Singapore just for a few days, but based on that experiment, the western media is overdoing this Singapore-bashing. I'd strongly suggest to visit the country, or at least get familiar with its history, its surrounding neighbors, theirs relationships, theirs relative cultural and economical differences. After that you will understand them better, and you will realize that its not that black-and-white as t…

You start off by telling us that you've been to Singapore just a few days and go on claiming superior insight into the country's cultural and political landscape. Then you wind up with a trite statement that contains a bunch of vague terms, is free of any meaning, and condescending to boot.

You're free to stay in your bubble, too.

Re: Death in Singapore

#50

Post by wilfra »

throwawaysnipe wrote: post #10
batgaijin wrote: post #3

Wow... that is beyond weird. From what I've read I always thought Singapore was quite the corrupt-free police state.

Some replies to parent dispute the 'police state' moniker. Decide for yourself: (Source: http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/singap... . Points below are all direct quotes) * Singapore's Internal Security Act (ISA) and Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act permit the authorities to arrest and detain suspects for virtually unlimited periods of time without charge or judicial review. * The Misuse of…

While these aren't good, they don't refute the commonly held belief that Singapore is essentially free from corruption.

Human rights is another issue and on this they do very badly. They are among the worst places in the World to get arrested for basically anything and they have harsh laws that restrict all sorts of personal freedoms. But that's not corruption.

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