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Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

johannakoll.posterous.com

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Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#141

Post by jseliger »

ZoFreX wrote: post #75
coldtea wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. Then maybe try to fix that instead of complaining about bikin…

> Then maybe try to fix that instead of complaining about bikinis in powerpoint presentations? Why can't we do both? Maybe the problems are related? It's wrong (although a common argument) to insist everyone be working on the single most important problem all of the time. What are you working on right now? Grails app? Game? It's less important than curing malaria, so you should drop what you're working on and go do t…

>Why can't we do both? Maybe the problems are related?

That's a fair comment. But they might not be, and conflating the two might itself be a problem. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5206857 for more.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#142

Post by rjknight »

9392732 wrote: post #79
mistercow wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about teh whitez? Prejudice against privileged groups isn't met with as much outrage as prejudice against unprivileged groups, and this is as it should be. Both are harmful, but the harm of the former is tiny in comparison to the harm of the latter.

So you are allowed to consider race when you are choosing your level of outrage?

In the same way that a 5-year old child punching a 30-year-old adult is not the same thing as a 30-year-old adult punching a 5-year-old child, yes.

This gets complicated when we consider that treating underprivileged groups as the proverbial 5-year-old children can also be a problem, such as when we assume they're incapable of speaking cogently for themselves, and so on. It's a difficult problem, which is why these kinds of topics always generate 100+ comment threads and much simpler topics do not.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#143

Post by elemenohpee »

coldtea wrote: post #110
[deleted] wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

See, you just called me a "douche" in polite (from my part) conversation. That's your way of advocating for more politeness? Just goes to show the hypocrisy of the whole thing.

I'm not advocating politeness, I'm advocating for an egalitarian society. Women have historically been less free to express themselves, and sexist jokes and other discriminatory language continue to silence them. Douche was not the correct term, you are a coward. Rather than defend the freedom of those who have had to fight for it, you hide behind your own narcissistic conception of freedom and unexamined privilege.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#145

Post by VMG »

coldtea wrote: post #56
rmc wrote: post #4

For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. If this was question about whether a new drug worked or not, th…

> For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. Then maybe try to fix that instead of complaining about bikin…

> Would anyone raise even an eyebrow if a woman sliped a sexy male model photo in a slide?

Probably not. The thing is that women on these conferences already feel unsafe because they are outnumbered and often inappropriately hit on.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#146

Post by petercooper »

coldtea wrote: post #86
singular wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People laugh when they hear a "racist" joke because it's funny. Maybe race related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places - I am not sure - but there should be room for jokes about race somewhere, right? I mean, where does this political correctness stop?

Yes, there should be place for jokes about race somewhere. Racism is a different thing than "jokes about race".

The British courts recently proved this too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20033097

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#147

Post by rmrfrmrf »

goodside wrote: post #81
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would anyone raise even an eyebrow if a woman sliped a sexy male model photo in a slide? Uh, yes? Why would anyone ever do that?

As a punchline to a joke about some software being superficially attractive, e.g.

Even still, I think it would be inappropriate. Part of the issue here is the anatomical differences between men and women. While seeing a women with large breasts might not seem bothersome to you, I'd venture a guess that a photograph of a closeup of an extremely well-endowed man whose penis is bulging out of his speedo (analogous to a well-endowed woman's breasts spilling out of the top of her bra) that conspicuously outlines the glans and shaft (analogous to a woman's erect nipples) would have men feeling uncomfortable at the LEAST and more-than-likely up in arms.

To take it further, just imagine if the "male programmer" stereotype was up on the slide as a "before" image with all of the insecurities of men highlighted--namely height and penis size. The "after" image shows the man visibly more endowed and taller. Again, if a WOMAN were to do this at a conference, she'd be ridiculed on the blogs for months after at the very least.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#148

Post by rbehrends »

flexie wrote: post #7

People laugh when they hear a "sexist" joke because it's funny. Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places - I am not sure - but there should be room for jokes about genders somewhere, right? I mean, where does this political correctness stop?

People laugh when they hear a "sexist" joke because it's funny.

What makes these jokes different, though, is that they are about having fun at somebody else's expense. Some people care about not causing others discomfort; some don't.

Also, personally, I tend to find them embarrassing and juvenile, not funny.

I mean, where does this political correctness stop?

Usually wherever inability to empathize with others begins. There is, after all, no law against being inconsiderate.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#149

Post by paulhauggis »

vannevar wrote: post #101
coldtea wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. Then maybe try to fix that instead of complaining about bikin…

Would anyone raise even an eyebrow if a woman sliped a sexy male model photo in a slide? The context is not symmetrical. Men have not been historically discriminated against in the workplace on the same massive scale that women have.

wow, so that makes it right? Men are definitely discriminated at the workplace. I've worked at a few offices which comprised of mostly females and the sexist jokes and discrimination against men was unbearable.

It doesn't get stopped because most people don't see it as a high priority.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#150

Post by sp332 »

singular wrote: post #123
jseliger wrote: post #83

>A talk at a conference showing girls in bikinis. An API presentation from a sponsor featuring ladies in bras. A demo at a hack day with a slide of women in underwear. A business model canvas workshop using a strip club as an example to illustrate the tool. These are just a few examples of casual sexism I've experience at (tech) events. Where does sexy end and sexism begin? I too am against sexism (who isn't?), but m…

So do you suggest that the way women are represented + put to use in the media/marketing is okay? Just because X is the case, doesn't make X okay. There's an obvious point being made when a slide with women clad in bikinis is shown at a geeky male-dominated conference. Do you think that's about some women looking sexy? And what do you think about the contrast between those slides and the technical ones? Do you not th…

> There's an obvious point being made when a slide with women clad in bikinis is shown at a geeky male-dominated conference.

Sorry, what point? The first thing that comes to mind is that the presenter wants to communicate that the tech is sexy.

> And what do you think about the contrast between those slides and the technical ones?

I might be thinking of a different slide deck, but the women were on the same slides (to the side or in the background) as the technical content.

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