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We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

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Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#71
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry no offense, but you don't get depression. There are people who may have a "positive outlook" on life, appear to be happy go lucky and one fine day not be able to get out of bed due a to crippling overwhelming feeling of despair. This is not just an "extension of being sad.". You can't just shake a person who is depressed or throw a bunch of balloons or bring a bunch of relatives around this person and make them…

There's despair and there's sadness. Can you highlight the difference?

I haven't withdrawn from life (except when I get very tired and need sleep), and I don't feel sad. I feel flat and empty. Others feel sadness, but it's not always that way.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#72
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A test can't be done in a lab on bloods but most of the time you can usually see the signs simply by observation and just talking to the person. I say the real problem is that it's hard to treat. When you see a close family member or friend suffering, you can't force them to go the doctors, where depression would certainly be diagnosed, and many often just don't go. The standard set of medication for depression usual…

And what I'm getting at is the fact that there SHOULD be a blood test. Or a biopsy. Or something more concrete. Is it not possible? I'd like scientific research to say that it is impossible.

Would you also like to have voltage readings as scientific explanation of an off-by-one error in software?

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#73
For anyone affected by depression or other mental health issues, like stress and anxiety, I recommend the work of John Kabat Zinn and his teachings on mindfulness. This was offered when I was still an in patient at a psychiatric unit and has had numerous beneficial effects on people I know who have struggled with serious depression and mental illness (including myself). There are mindfulness courses all over the world these days :)

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#74
post #59

I am said to suffer depression myself, which BTW I would deny as I would say its "realism", but I really have an issue with it being described as an "illness". It seems to be that this definition is more about giving depression PR parity with actual illnesses, rather than a correct label. Its like the public will accept an "illness" as real, but a psychological issues as not real. There for making the public see depr…

This is wrong, wrong, wrong. Sometimes people get down or get "the blues" but this is something very much different from major clinical depression. Depression has many aspects but one of the most important is a chemical imbalance in the brain. It's not just a feeling or an emotion, it's a fundamental change to the way your brain works. And episodes of major depression can last for years, even decades.

And somehow a chemical imbalance in the brain cannot be achieved by human behavior? The brain constantly adapts and changes to outside stimuli. Why would it be impossible to create depression from outside stimuli? I'm not trying to marginalize the illnesses of other people, but let's try to have a more varied approach than "no it's in the brain and they are born with it"

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#75
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in India and the conditions could be described to be bleak enough to make the most optimistic person sad. Suicide rates there were 10x what they are in the west. I am not even sure there is enough cultural understanding and sensitivity about depression: There used to be an uproar and attempts to treat the symptoms when high school kids used to commit suicide by the dozen (typically after poor exam results). (…

Depression is having a negative outlook on life over an extended period of time that starts effecting your everyday decisions and causing you to withdraw from social situations. It's an extension of being sad. Turn it around. If you're happy most of the time, it will be difficult for a psychiatrist to classify you as being depressed.

As the other poster said, this is NOT depression. Depression is much more than just that. Seriously, you have never met anyone depressed in your life if your definition of depression is limited to that. Depression is when someone you have known for many years as being normal becomes suddenly incapable of doing anything, incapable of any logical train of thought, and spending time talking too much, obsessed by things a normal person would consider as crazy, together with severe, extremely severe mood swings. Well, what i describe is ONE form of depression, but it's not just about remotely being sad. You really should inform yourself before having an opinion on anything.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#76

Where are the clinical tests for depression? The diagnosis is solely based on the opinion of the practitioner, there is no brain scan or chemical test that can conclusively prove that someone is suffering from depression. The so called "drugs" used to treat depression are no better, they "are thought to work" (big pharma phrases it this way in their own TV ads) by re-balancing the brain's chemistry, but in actual fac…

The clinical tests are easy to find: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK64063/

a numbered list? sad joke...

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#77
post #43

Professor Sapolsky at Stanford gave an interesting lecture about depression a few years ago... highly recommended: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

There's also this, "How To Be Alone": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7X7sZzSXYs . It did help me a couple of times.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#78

Thank you, Mark, for writing this. I have lost three close friends in the past three months to depression. Their deaths were so similar it was shocking; they were all among the most brilliant people I had known, and all had been suffering from depression almost their entire lives. At the funeral of the one who was closest to me, another girl told a story of how on one day when his depression was particularly bad, he…

> Recognize your brain lies to you

Thank you for re-emphasizing this. I believe it is the single most important bit of knowledge we can have about depression.

My wife has been struggling with depression on and off for years, and it always frustrates me how she in the depressed periods seemingly belittles and obliterates all the good things that happen around her, while all inconveniences and imperfections, big or small, are considered capital P Problems.

I didn't know much about depression to start with, but it was pretty apparent that this imbalanced outlook was keeping her depression going and making it worse.

If we overslept one day and one of the kids missed the first class at school (for the first time in over a year), she conceives this a significant failure, the teacher will be giving her Looks from now on, and if it happens just fifteen more times this year we are in risk of the child being kicked out of school. While in my view, I think the teacher doesn't care if it happens once, but rather is very happy with us for generally sending a happy and well-dressed child to school, who generally has her homework in order and has been taught that both reading and learning are fun.

So I try to point out the positive things whenever I can, and explain how the negative things won't cause and real damage to us. It does help, but obviously she resists the "fake obnoxious rose-tinted world view" because she can clearly see how everything is wrong. The problem with this is that this endless list of lengthy explanations of everything that is wrong and how wrong it is, and the constant trivialization of the happy moments of the day, is slowly rubbing off on me.

For a long time I was oblivious to how this affected me, until last year after she had gotten better, I suddenly crashed. At nights, I would lie awake for hours - heart pounding - thinking about how I have not done anything useful or significant ever, and how everyone I loved would in the best case be dying painfully of liver failure in old age or something like that. I could barely watch the news, because every distant little tragedy would affect me personally and making me useless for the rest of the day. When my children were running out of bed because they forgot to give me good-night hugs I would sometimes feel absolutely nothing.

Fortunately, my wife is pretty sharp and noticed the problem even though I myself didn't even notice that anything was wrong. She told me that I showed signs of depression, and we decided to keep pressure down for a few months - less travelling, less ski trips, forget about redecorating the hallway, etc.

That helped, and the knowledge that my brain lies to me helped, even though it ran much deeper than I had imagined: my brain constructs both my thoughts, my reasoning, and my impressions. Having to use this same lying bastard brain to "fix" the brain is pretty damn tricky.

We're both pretty much recovered now, but I have two pieces of advice to give:

1. Depression is contagious. If a close loved one is suffering, be sure to constantly keep an eye on yourself.

2. While the brain lies, memory is pretty reliable. When you have difficulties dealing with something, try to remember how you used to react to this before.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#79
post #32
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression can be diagnosed pretty easily by running through a form of questions and checking off checkboxes. You are depressed if some statistical measures score above a certain value. To which degree are you...Sad? Have trouble getting things done? Don't find joy in the things that used to make you happy? Thinking about death? Feel any emotions at all? Afraid that something terrible is about to happen? Thinking abo…

Why isn't it an exact science? Science teaches us that things should be repeatable and reproducible. Running through a form of questions and ticking off boxes doesn't seem very "advanced" to me. In fact it seems like the very definition of backwards. Why aren't we aiming for a physics level of understanding in psychology?

I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree that there is plenty of research to be done here: differentiating different types of depression and anxiety, detailed fMRI studies, getting more knowledge about chemical imbalances and how the drugs operate etc.

But mood disorders aren't in the same ballpark as physical ailments. I mean, even a common infection can be impossible to diagnose unambiguously from a simple blood test, and mood disorders usually interact with who you are as a person. You can't just make a machine that solves this.

I doubt you're the kind of person to be convinced by an anecdote, but I suffered recurring depression and anxiety for a period of five years and was almost completely cured by a combination of SSRIs and CBT. What seemed to make me get these recurring depressive episodes was a combination of unhealthy thought patterns and behaviors. Holding myself to impossibly high standards, having a habit of disregarding my accomplishments, working very hard with no long breaks, being overly critical in social settings and a lot of other small things that were very much part of my personality (and incidentally, very common in the tech community). No one would have classified these behaviors as excessively weird or pathological, but they turned out manifest in long-lasting and serious depressive symptoms. The question is, how are you going to measure behaviors and thought patterns like this with a machine or a physical measurement?

Maybe you could just say that "okay, so the depression or anxiety isn't a symptom of something that's wrong, it's a problem in itself, which we could somehow fix physically or chemically". But then you're moving into some pretty dodgy philosophical territory.

Mood disorders simply can't be a hard science with the degree of understanding we can hope to get in the near future. And although there's plenty of research to be done, the methods we use are pretty good.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#80
If you took a survey, asking if they felt sympathy for those diagnosed with the mental illness of clinical depression, I am pretty sure that most would answer yes.

My point is that this article is sort of worthless and whats more, the title is really irritating (because most people already have sympathy for those with depression). How about an article titled - we need to seek shelter to survive winter (most people already do).

What we need to do is a lot more than feel sorry for these people. We need to take action to help them.

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