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We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

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Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#21

Post by jwdunne »

jtchang wrote: post #20
jwdunne wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A test can't be done in a lab on bloods but most of the time you can usually see the signs simply by observation and just talking to the person. I say the real problem is that it's hard to treat. When you see a close family member or friend suffering, you can't force them to go the doctors, where depression would certainly be diagnosed, and many often just don't go. The standard set of medication for depression usual…

And what I'm getting at is the fact that there SHOULD be a blood test. Or a biopsy. Or something more concrete. Is it not possible? I'd like scientific research to say that it is impossible.

What I'm saying is a clear cut test would be great but it's not actually hard twit out it and a bigger problem is the treatment.

I think the answer to both lies in the same area though, since the source of depression is not clear in the brain (I believe there was a study that shown SSRIs have an immediate effect on serotonin re-uptake yet takes a number of weeks to ease depression - implying serotonin doesn't play such a direct role as once believed).

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#22

Post by hedwall »

imperio59 wrote: post #5
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a highly uninformed opinion.

I think it's actually highly well informed, Psychiatrists themselves admit there's nothing scientific about the whole "brain chemistry imbalance" bullshit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzdu3WQyIZg&list=PLFD5944...

He isn't talking about medication, he is talking about CBT. CBT on it's own has been shown to be effective for low to moderate depression.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#23

Post by austenallred »

Thank you, Mark, for writing this.

I have lost three close friends in the past three months to depression. Their deaths were so similar it was shocking; they were all among the most brilliant people I had known, and all had been suffering from depression almost their entire lives.

At the funeral of the one who was closest to me, another girl told a story of how on one day when his depression was particularly bad, he boasted in his great success for the day: Getting out of bed to brush his teeth.

Bear in mind this was a kid who spoke Russian and Arabic fluently, who loved the arts, was incredible at chess, was a great musician, and took Calculus BC in 9th grade. Absolutely brilliant. He was a fighter, he was stubborn, he was young, and some say he took his own life. I prefer to say that depression took his life.

Sorry for getting so personal, but I simply can't take any of the comments that say "just get over it." Depression is as real and as disabling as being paralyzed; it may not happen to everyone, but to say things like, "You need to be stronger" are no more appropriate to the depressed than they are to the paralyzed.

But most of all, if any of you are reading this who have depression, keep fighting. Recognize your brain lies to you, and no matter what it says there are many people who love you and it will get better.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#24

Post by khitchdee »

eriksank wrote: post #8

It seems to be culturally dependent too and related to education as well. There seems to be less of an epidemic in the part of Asia where I live.

In India, where there is a large network of family and friends that you can tap into and confide in, it's much easier to pass through your low periods without them having a lasting influence on your psyche. Traditionally, there were no psychiatrists in India, but lots of gurus and so called healers that were probably used by those staggering in life. Today, the family and friends network is being replaced by Facebook which is a lot less substantial. Also, western medicine style psychiatrists are now quite common in all cities. The incidence of what is now called mental illness is picking up in India.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#25

Post by jtchang »

jwdunne wrote: post #21
jtchang wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what I'm getting at is the fact that there SHOULD be a blood test. Or a biopsy. Or something more concrete. Is it not possible? I'd like scientific research to say that it is impossible.

What I'm saying is a clear cut test would be great but it's not actually hard twit out it and a bigger problem is the treatment. I think the answer to both lies in the same area though, since the source of depression is not clear in the brain (I believe there was a study that shown SSRIs have an immediate effect on serotonin re-uptake yet takes a number of weeks to ease depression - implying serotonin doesn't play su…

We have to study it from multiple angles. I don't have a problem with more research into SSRIs. Hell I don't even have a problem with SSRIs.

The main issue I have is that people think our understanding of mental illness / psychiatry is as good as say pathology.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#26

Post by marvin »

jtchang wrote: post #6

The problem with depression is that it is hard to diagnose. If anything we are still in the dark ages of mental illness. If you have an infection we have a way to tell you what infection. Right now there is no way to test for depression. More scientific research is definitely needed.

Depression can be diagnosed pretty easily by running through a form of questions and checking off checkboxes. You are depressed if some statistical measures score above a certain value.

To which degree are you...Sad? Have trouble getting things done? Don't find joy in the things that used to make you happy? Thinking about death? Feel any emotions at all? Afraid that something terrible is about to happen? Thinking about killing yourself? Planning to kill yourself? Etc.

It's not an exact science the way physics is, but we are only in the dark ages of mental illness in the sense that a lot of uninformed people don't have any idea how these illnesses are treated by professionals.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#27

Post by eshvk »

ekianjo wrote: post #12
eriksank wrote: post #8

It seems to be culturally dependent too and related to education as well. There seems to be less of an epidemic in the part of Asia where I live.

I am not sure which part of Asia you are referring to, but in Japan there is "depression boom", at least judging by the increased amount of anti-depressants being sold.

I lived in India and the conditions could be described to be bleak enough to make the most optimistic person sad. Suicide rates there were 10x what they are in the west. I am not even sure there is enough cultural understanding and sensitivity about depression: There used to be an uproar and attempts to treat the symptoms when high school kids used to commit suicide by the dozen (typically after poor exam results).

(To the other poster, depression is not the same as "being sad" and having a bunch of people around you all the time asking you whether there is something wrong is not necessarily conducive to mental health. (Just to offer a flip side to your oh, there is so much community which is why there is a lack of mental illness anecdote.))

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#28

Post by erikpukinskis »

jtchang wrote: post #15
ekianjo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are no more in the "dark ages of mental illness". You must be kidding. Before we used to burn people who were mentally deficient and heard voices or had hallucinations as they were thought to be possessed by the Devil. That was the "dark ages of mental illness" you are talking about. There is now information, testing, diagnostic methods everywhere available, and efficient medication. Keep yourself up to date.

How do you definitively test for depression? Are the diagnostic methods pretty good? Both accurate and precise with very low false positive rates? Is the medication proven to work for depression? Sorry but I think a lot of that can be argued that we are still shooting in the dark. I want a test for depression like I test for strep throat. AND I want the "cure" to be repeatable. Yes we are still in the dark ages.

Are the diagnostic methods pretty good? Both accurate and precise with very low false positive rates?

Yes: "Overall sensitivity was 84% (95% CI, 79% to 89%); overall specificity was 72% (CI, 67% to 77%)" (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7755226)

Is the medication proven to work for depression?

There's no such thing as proof in science. A recent meta-analysis: "Most patients treated with serotonergic antidepressants showed a clinical trajectory over time that is superior to that of placebo-treated patients. However, some patients receiving these medications did more poorly than patients receiving placebo. These data highlight the importance of ongoing monitoring of medication risks and benefits during serotonergic antidepressant treatment" (http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=11074...)

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#29

Post by jtchang »

If there is one thing I've learned about depression is that we suck at identifying it and we suck even more at "curing" it.

I'm not a doctor. But there is a huge difference between being sad and killing yourself. There are some people who think it is just "in their head" and to "shake it off". There have been lots of diseases in our history that people thought were normal until we made some crazy discovery that what was really causing it was some previously unknown agent.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#30

Post by einhverfr »

DanBC wrote: post #10

Already this thread has replies that are trotting out the usual "depression is just sadness" or "CBT is nonsense". The UK NHS National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence ( http://www.nice.org.uk/ ) gathers evidence of cost effectiveness (using quality adjusted life years) for various treatments. They are pretty clear - CBT is excellent for mild depression; CBT and medication combined is more effective than…

It's an interesting issue. One fundamental question is what social context has to do with depression. Is it possible that depression is so rampant today because our lives are socially impoverished and that medication is in part just a way to cover up the root cause?
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