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We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

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Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#51
Having experienced a couple major depressive episodes, I have no desire to ever go back, and I've built myself a sort of mental fortress to hopefully withstand whatever shocks I'll experience as I keep on living. I'm fortunate in that in both of my cases, I was able to emerge and put the depression behind me. I can't imagine chronically feeling the way I did.

Imagine being so emotionally hurt that it feels like physical pain, long after you were able to mentally process what initially upset you. Like a pain so chronic and awful that you're willing to do just about anything to make it stop. Imagine how frustrating it is to want to be over something and to think you are mentally past it, but the emotional side of your brain (i.e. most of it) just won't budge. And then on top of it, you feel guilty for being such a drag on people around you. And you also feel paranoid that even when you're not dumping on them, you're alienating them in some way. So you mostly just suffer in silence. It's terribly debilitating.

A friend of mine who undoubtedly would be reading HN today if he were still around evidently felt this way pretty much his entire life. I don't think I would have been able to take it either.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#52

Where are the clinical tests for depression? The diagnosis is solely based on the opinion of the practitioner, there is no brain scan or chemical test that can conclusively prove that someone is suffering from depression. The so called "drugs" used to treat depression are no better, they "are thought to work" (big pharma phrases it this way in their own TV ads) by re-balancing the brain's chemistry, but in actual fac…

Note: The video linked to by parent is by CCHR, a known Scientology front group[1]. Doesn't mean they're necessarily right or wrong, just thought people should know. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Commission_on_Human_R...

Au contraire, if it is related to Scientology, give it a very wide berth.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#53
post #34

Thank you, Mark, for writing this. I have lost three close friends in the past three months to depression. Their deaths were so similar it was shocking; they were all among the most brilliant people I had known, and all had been suffering from depression almost their entire lives. At the funeral of the one who was closest to me, another girl told a story of how on one day when his depression was particularly bad, he…

> your brain lies to you Indeed, I've been saying this to myself in dozens of situations, not just depressive moods. If you actually believe it when you say it, it's like a sort of mantra that can replace any pill! ...but unfortunately people suffering from clinical depression can't get themselves into the "saying it and believing it mode".

it's what I've told others too, it's like living behind a filter, and every thought and every idea is focused on the negative and false. and the thing is, that I've had it for so long, a decade maybe? probably was there before I even recognized what it was.

but for me it comes and goes, and when it comes I've learned to see the filter, it's just harder to remember what things look like in reality.

but I'm doing well, I dont have it quite as bad as some, and it goes away and I've learned to cope and figure out and get past it, but...

it's never going to stop coming back, and I also know it brings back a kind of brightness and sharpness when it leaves, something I actually do enjoy. I'm sometimes dysfunctional because of it, but mostly... I'm just me, I do alright and I'd rather not change me just yet, so for now I'll deal with it, because it helps me help others.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#54
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you definitively test for depression? Are the diagnostic methods pretty good? Both accurate and precise with very low false positive rates? Is the medication proven to work for depression? Sorry but I think a lot of that can be argued that we are still shooting in the dark. I want a test for depression like I test for strep throat. AND I want the "cure" to be repeatable. Yes we are still in the dark ages.

Are the diagnostic methods pretty good? Both accurate and precise with very low false positive rates? Yes: "Overall sensitivity was 84% (95% CI, 79% to 89%); overall specificity was 72% (CI, 67% to 77%)" ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7755226 ) Is the medication proven to work for depression? There's no such thing as proof in science. A recent meta-analysis: "Most patients treated with serotonergic antidepressa…

Interesting...do you have the full article?

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#55
We need more compassion in general - not just for the outlier cases - but society in general can be a pretty mean entity.

I've been thinking lately how sad it is that so many of the younger hackers in my local scene (metalab.at) are not as familiar with John Lennons' World Peace movement as they should be. That light was snuffed out, but John (and Yoko, and many, many others) were really trying hard to get a world peace movement established, that would bring more love to the world.

If you turn on the TV today, you don't see much love. Most "comedies" are little more than 30-minutes-ridicule+laughtrack. In fact, remove the laugh-track from most TV shows and you have a banal hate festival.

I think depression being treated poorly, in general, by society is symptomatic of a larger maladay - which is that we humans simply don't trust our neighbors. We don't communicate freely and honestly with each other. You can't smile at a stranger in Vienna, for instance, just for the sake of the happiness - there always has to be the inference of an alternative, sinister, motive. Why is that?

Its because, fundamentally our cultural veigns - the mass communications networks of PR, Advertising, News, TV - don't profit from happiness and good times. They profit from the "black blood cell" of intrigue, controversy, synthesis/anti-synthesis. All we really see on TV is conflict this and that, and if there is some sort of consolation, its usually couched as "irony" or some such emotion.

But what of true Peace, where people are getting along great? There is a lot of that in the world, and it goes under-reported, and just not noticed by the majority. Its possible that depression is a social disease, and is contagious.

But, so is happiness.

We need more overt acknolwedgement of the good times, too, in my opinion - the truly good times, real progress. The aversion of the average citizen towards sharing good news and good times needs to be overcome.

We miss you, John Lennon.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: The video linked to by parent is by CCHR, a known Scientology front group[1]. Doesn't mean they're necessarily right or wrong, just thought people should know. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Commission_on_Human_R...

Actually, it's no secret that CCHR is related to the Church of Scientology. It says so on www.scientology.org: As part of their religious Code, Scientologists pledge “to expose and help abolish any and all physically damaging practices in the field of mental health,” and thereby bring about an atmosphere of safety and security to mental healing. Accordingly, in 1969 Scientologists established the Citizens Commission…

I'd like to see external citations for the list of claimed achievements on that second page.

To balance out your links and snippets, here's the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Commission_on_Human_Ri...

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#57
Without death of loved one, without death of friends. Without these a lot of revelations and emotions would be locked in you forever.

They spark humanity, they unite, they bring forward topics that usually no one would want to discuss.

And when all your fears will be dealt with, maybe death will stop be so scary.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#58
A lot of uniformed people in this thread. You can't generalise as much as you all do.

You have to understand that people experience life in very different ways. I have experienced depression [0] but I can't speak for anybody else other than to say I know it's hard and keep on.

The real problem with depression is that everybody wants to wash their hands of it. "There are doctors that we can pass these sick people to. The system will sort everything out. That guy's a real downer, I hope he get's help... from somebody else..." I understand that it can be a mood-ruiner and people feel ashamed of it even by association but where is the strength in ignoring things? Compassion would truly be helpful and if you can give it, give it.

Go for CBT and you'll find it largely amounts to filling out forms on your mental state with tickboxes that don't really apply to you, while somebody tries to find out ways that your thinking is twisted. But you can be rational, successful, positive and still feel awful. Do you want to medicate the hell out of the high-functioning, positive guy that wants to change the world [1]? The term 'chemical imbalance' sometimes gets thrown around, and honestly it's probably wrong but there is a truth to it -- often the people that say they have a chemical imbalance are thinking quite rationally but facing terrible emotions that they know they shouldn't have to (from trauma, or an unhealthy subconscious.)

[0] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5096568

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgh2dFngFsg

edit; If you're going to downvote me it would be nice if you would mention why. Do you actually have experience of any of this? I'm trying to give my honest experience on this, and I'm trying to point out that a guy like Aaron Swartz doesn't really fit the neat definitions required by most treatments; and that compassion beyond telling others to 'go to a doctor' is worthwhile.

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#59
I am said to suffer depression myself, which BTW I would deny as I would say its "realism", but I really have an issue with it being described as an "illness".

It seems to be that this definition is more about giving depression PR parity with actual illnesses, rather than a correct label. Its like the public will accept an "illness" as real, but a psychological issues as not real. There for making the public see depression as "illness" helps get support. See what I mean?

From what I can make out, depression is a state of mind. Its a psychological thing. Ie, its a sort of loop people get themselves in to. That, to me, is not an illness. Not more so than arrogance, confidence or anger. Its an emotion. Is love an illness too? I realise that can be debated, but I don't think its helpful to redefine things for PR reasons. To me that cheapens it.

I'm not saying depression is there for less valid, clearly its as debilitating as what I would think of as real "illness", if not more so, but I do roll my eyes and switch off every time I hear the word "illness" appropriated for things that aren't really "illnesses". As I say, the lack of the word illness doesn't, to me, make it less serious. To me, using that word is not necessary, it just blurs the lines and can put people off caring. It make it sound exaggerated or a bit "me too".

Should add that I do understand that there are different types of depression. Perhaps using the single word depression to cover all cases is more the problem that the word "illness".

I'm by no means unsympathetic, I know how it can effect people. I've seen the results of suicide. Hell, my mum's other half had to cut the bloke down while the wife screamed in the street. But I worry that re-defining things puts the general population off.

No idea if these definitions are different each side of the Atlantic. Heh, no idea if its just me who thinks this either!!!

Re: We Need to Have Sympathy for Those With Depression. It is an Illness

#60

not all cases of depression can be attributed to unbalanced brain chemistry. sometimes the chemistry is ok, it's just your life is fucked. in this case depression is a normal reaction. you just can't remain all cheerful when you're drowning in shit. i don't think taking up meds or doing other things to cover it up is a good answer to such situations. with all its negative aspects depression is also a big reminder tha…

Why is this voted down? It's a valid opinion.

Please tell me we don't have depression Nazis who can only accept one narrow definition of depression. What I see described here is possible how most people experience depression. Or does only extreme depression count?

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