Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. Thank you for sharing. I was wondering would it make a difference at all if someone else, (a friend, therapist, partner) would say how the current perspective is corrupted or warped. Would that make a difference? Would it help in that situation? If not, what does help, if anything to get out of that mode?
I have "pain is temporary" tattooed on my inner thigh to serve exactly this purpose. Unfortunately, when you're depressed the tattoo seems stupid. PS: This might be because it's a stupid tattoo to begin with.
Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
81–90 of 95 posts
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#82Speaking as someone who has been suicidal, I think that that article is a lot of hot air. This is what it felt like to be suicidal: Imagine the worst heartbreak you have ever felt, and multiply this by ten. Imagine the worst anxiety you have ever suffered and multiply this by ten. Imagine that every second feels like a minute, in each of those minute-long-seconds, you feel like a lion is just about to jump out from a…
> Imagine that the only reason that you didn't kill yourself in order to end this interminable torment is because you figured you'd fuck even that up and just end up a quadriplegic, and then be truly screwed, since you'd never be able to end your eternal misery then. Oh man. This struck way too close to home, as it is was the biggest reason I didn't actually go through with suicide when I was at the darkest point in…
It's a relatively well-known fact that a very dangerous phase of depression is when you start to get better, because when you feel worst, you typically lack the energy to do anything, including suicide. When you start to pull out of it (such as when you begin taking effective medication) there can be a time when you aren't feeling paralyzed anymore, but still suicidal.
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like you're dealing with severe depression. I hope you're seeing someone you can talk to about these feelings. My email is alanctgardner@gmail.com if you do need someone to talk to. I think he touches on a lot of the points you mentioned: > every second feels like a minute > you constantly obsess on what it was you did so wrong > they felt you were a terrible disgrace That sounds like deconstruction, negati…
P.S. What I didn't like about the original article is it made it sound as if the feelings that lead to suicide are some sort of effete existential angst, and therefore rather mysterious, while in reality -- at least for me -- the feelings were just HELL ON EARTH. Anyone who has any inkling of how much real tangible pain your own brain can put you in, would never question why someone might commit suicide. There are ti…
Exactly this. The mental pain and anguish from second to second can feel absolutely unbearable and hellish. When every synapse in your brain feels on fire, and overwhelmingly awful, being able to not exist anymore seems a very enticing proposition.
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#84"So there you have it. It’s really not a pretty picture. But, again, I do hope that if you ever are unfortunate enough to experience these cognitive dynamics in your own mind—and I, for one, very much have—or if you suspect you’re seeing behaviors in others that indicate these thought patterns may be occurring, that this information helps you to meta-cognitively puncture suicidal ideation." I tend to think there's no…
It wouldn't be that way for most people. Most people are just trying to understand and find a way to help, and don't get triggered easily by stuff like this.
Even if you've had suicide attempts and ongoing depression, it is something you can get past. It all depends on where you are in your life.
If its triggering for you, avoid it for your own mental health. But others still might want to discuss, analyze and come to terms.
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Imagine that the only reason that you didn't kill yourself in order to end this interminable torment is because you figured you'd fuck even that up and just end up a quadriplegic, and then be truly screwed, since you'd never be able to end your eternal misery then. Oh man. This struck way too close to home, as it is was the biggest reason I didn't actually go through with suicide when I was at the darkest point in…
It's a relatively well-known fact that a very dangerous phase of depression is when you start to get better, because when you feel worst, you typically lack the energy to do anything, including suicide. When you start to pull out of it (such as when you begin taking effective medication) there can be a time when you aren't feeling paralyzed anymore, but still suicidal.
I actually wasn't aware of that, but it makes a lot of sense and aligns with my experiences with depression/suicide a lot. The times I've felt suicidal were all when I was picking myself up and put myself out there and it crashed and burned horribly (in my mind at least; in reality it was just a small setback). Now that you mention it, my worst was actually when I just didn't care about anything, and when I had suicidal tendencies I was trying to get better and had just hit some small speed bumps that I felt were insurmountable in the heat of the moment.
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well if you sacrifice to save a group that also has the gene (e.g. extended family / tribe) it would work out.
Damn it, you can't just say that; there is math involved! On the one hand, you have the evolutionary cost to yourself: if you die, then you can't have any more children. On the other hand, you have the evolutionary benefit to your close kin: they have access to more resources with you gone. This benefit is weighted by how closely these other people are related to you. A rule of thumb is that you break even if you sac…
>Do you really expect that a get-depressed-and-die instinct would reliably result in at least that much benefit to someone's close kin? If not, then you don't really expect such an instinct to evolve by kin selection.
Consider the case of cancer. Cells have builtin functions for commiting suicide when something goes awry, and also do not breed excessively normally. However since knocking those inhibitions out is advantageuos in the short term, cancer arises again and again. The mutations seems to confer an advantage, for the first generation, the second generation... quite a few generations actually. Then suddenly, as the cancer cells reach critical mass, and the parasite/parasitee ratio grows to large, it becomes a huge liability. The cancer cells die. Every single one. The end.
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#87In my opinion, suicide is an evolutionary trait design to unburden the group when the self is no longer felt to be of any worth; e.g. contributing positively. If this were true, then placing the suicidal individual in a completely different environment; one in which they might be more successful, might be therapeutic. For example, relocated to another country with a foster family. More easily said than done.
There is a problem with this theory: it hypothesizes a benefit to a group , but no benefit to the individual who commits suicide. Individuals who do not have the gene(s) that predispose toward committing suicide would therefore be more fit than individuals who do, and these gene(s) would never become widespread. I believe this was one of the main points of Dawkins' The Selfish Gene : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The…
Genes which are harmful to individuals can indeed propagate if they are beneficial to the group. If a group that contains a gene is fitter than another which does not, a gene may propagate even if it is harmful to individuals in certain situations. Presumably this is how altruism, community, and patriotism evolved. Kids die in battle all the time, even with no close family members to protect; chalk it up to a gene for "duty."
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#88"So there you have it. It’s really not a pretty picture. But, again, I do hope that if you ever are unfortunate enough to experience these cognitive dynamics in your own mind—and I, for one, very much have—or if you suspect you’re seeing behaviors in others that indicate these thought patterns may be occurring, that this information helps you to meta-cognitively puncture suicidal ideation." I tend to think there's no…
It wouldn't be that way for most people. Most people are just trying to understand and find a way to help, and don't get triggered easily by stuff like this. Even if you've had suicide attempts and ongoing depression, it is something you can get past. It all depends on where you are in your life. If its triggering for you, avoid it for your own mental health. But others still might want to discuss, analyze and come t…
Thanks. I'm the one who posted it, and I was hoping it would help others to come to terms. I'm in a much better place than I once was. I'm not sure at all that this thread was the right thing to do.
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. Thank you for sharing. I was wondering would it make a difference at all if someone else, (a friend, therapist, partner) would say how the current perspective is corrupted or warped. Would that make a difference? Would it help in that situation? If not, what does help, if anything to get out of that mode?
> Would that make a difference? Let's assume you are a very avid programmer and love nothing more than coding and to you it is the most natural thing in the world, then let's assume someone comes along and tells you your view is just warped, corrupted and you have no idea what you are talking about. However clumsy that analogy is, how would you feel in that situation? Would your first, intuitive gut reaction be " You…
Thank you very much for sharing.
It is interesting that it is possible to be so introspective and at the same time for it not to help. In a certain way that is one of the common approaches in therapy. Let patients confront their irrational persistent thoughts. Would you say that this ability confers an immunity to therapy?
> stop trying to "flip a switch", no matter how much you try with the very best intentions and your deepest love
Yeah that is really the first instinct. I've been on both sides of it, and still (wrongly) think that it would work, even though it didn't seem to work before.
I'll have to try the show of support. That makes sense, thank you for suggestion. Looking back, getting out and changing the physical surroundings sometimes make a difference in the mental state.
> I think it is the thought of making something better with your own hands that can create quite a positive pull.
That makes a lot of sense. Some people are better at providing that. It is the personality and demeanor too perhaps -- just being with them, creates a better state.
Thank again you for sharing.
Re: Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but from my current perspective they seem corrupted and perverse. Thank you for sharing. I was wondering would it make a difference at all if someone else, (a friend, therapist, partner) would say how the current perspective is corrupted or warped. Would that make a difference? Would it help in that situation? If not, what does help, if anything to get out of that mode?
I've been in the position of being that someone else a few times, most recently last night, so please excuse any incoherence due to sleep deprivation. My wife suffers from bipolar disorder, which is mostly characterised in her by periods of intense depression, which in her case can at times lead to making conclusions that externally make no sense at all. Things like "I'm going to kill myself because it will make life…
Thank you for sharing. I can't imagine having to go through that.
> I would advise to be incredibly careful doing that though, since they may sit and agree with you just to reassure you and get you out of the way.
That is an interesting perspective. I have seen that happen. They wouldn't want to upset me or make me feel like a burden or a failure for not successfully helping them, so I would gets agreements and assurances but I could tell there were not genuine.
Sometimes persuading them to do something else, sometime different, just being in a different place helps temporarily of course in that state people don't want to do anything or go anywhere, so that doesn't always work.