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Never Lie About Who You Really Are

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Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#211

Post by anchorsteam »

silentmars wrote: post #199
ForrestN wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's opportunistic because the only reason anyone is interested in this article is because he is framing it in terms of his personal life and, unfortunately, writing about being gay is still eye-catching. Had he used another analogy, the article would have been much less unique and remarkable. It's got whatever traction it does have because the insight supposedly comes from his experience as a gay man. Because I thin…

How horrid. "Unfortunately, writing about being gay is still eye-catching." Shame on you.

Follow ForrestN's commentary from the top. It's difficult to see why you would point a finger.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#212

Post by kelnos »

run4yourlives wrote: post #177
crikli wrote: post #146

The inference of this paragraph bugs me: "Last week, the pest control guy came to the door. "Are you Mr. Smith?" he says. "No, I'm Mr. Pallotta, Mr. Smith's partner," I reply. "Partner?" he asks. I'm being questioned in my own home. "Yes, partner," I answer. "We're a gay couple." "Oh," he says, trying to process this and maintain his composure." The writer assumes that because the pest control guy doesn't immediately…

I agree with you, only because the word "partner" is probably the worst possible choice of word to use to explain a relationship that represents exclusive pair-bonding of a sexual or close to sexual nature. 'Parter' is too often used in the exact opposite meaning: Your business partner, my dance partner, my tennis partner, Partnership in a firm. If he had said "boyfriend" of even better, "husband" (which I appreciate…

That's something that's always bothered me, and this article paints it even clearer: he's constantly thinking about being true to himself and who he is wrt being gay, and yet he uses an ambiguous term to describe his relationship with his significant other. Why not just say "boyfriend", "fiance", or "husband"?

Absolutely agreed that "we Americans" (disappointingly) haven't quite caught on to using husband/wife to describe the halves of a gay couple. A while back a colleague referred to his SO as "my husband" in casual conversation. At the time, I hadn't known him for long, and hadn't known he was gay. It was a pleasant surprise to me that he used a gendered descriptor right off the bat instead of something more ambiguous. I realized at that point that it was very, very rare for me to hear a gay person refer to his/her significant other as anything other than "partner". And I live in San Francisco, of all places.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#213

Post by nollidge »

qu4z-2 wrote: post #198
nollidge wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree! I bet the pest control didn't actually say those exact words, either! You know, I wonder if there actually was a pest control guy at all--I bet it was really a plumber ! Man, I just can't trust this author at all anymore. Thanks for pointing this out. Thanks also for explaining the ambiguity of the English language to all of us, as well as some of the really interesting machinations people sometimes go…

The details of wording or occupation aren't really key to the story though. It is however relevant whether his pause was due to being uncomfortable with the author's sexuality or due to his determining which interpretation of an ambiguous statement was correct. Although I suppose in the end the author's experience of the situation is the main point. In short, your comment was less constructive than that you criticize…

It's not relevant, though, because the author himself didn't imply either one. The awkwardness, the otherness, of his situation is the point. He said nothing about bigotry, or about the pest guy being "disturbed", which means the commenter I responded to is the one bringing all the baggage to the conversation.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#214

Post by godDLL »

lazyGeneral wrote: post #173
ForrestN wrote: post #109

I'm gay and this analogy is strained and opportunistic. The charged moment when you're buying flowers for a same-sex partner is charged psychologically, not because of external fears. I live in a very liberal city, and there's almost zero chance I'm going to get bullied by the lady at the flower shop. It's charged because of how I grew up, because of the other people who made me feel like an outsider or a freak, beca…

There is some fundamental truth here though. I'm not in college you see. Even though I went for three years and was doing perfectly fine GPA wise, and was on track to a "dream career" with the admiration of everybody around me even though I knew I was not learning very much in school. I decided to take that another path, where I actually try to measure what I learn beyond the grade inflation that was rampant at schoo…

I'm dealing with this all of the time, and I have a go-to solution for you (try it) – bury them in evidence. They aren't trying to argue YOU into something. They are trying to argue THEMSELVES into it, you just knocked their value-system over, after all; they want to KNOW they're STILL OK.

So, give them some more.

"I quit school, didn't seem that important. Oh, and I'm planning on trying the gay thing, seems people are more and more into it, maybe there's something there, my Imam said so himself. Do you have any plans for the summer? I need someone to help me build a base-jumping tower outside the town, and sell tickets."

As long as you're talking they are not. My life is weird enough for me to go on like that for hours, and all of it can be true, too.

Cheers. :)

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#215

Post by lilsunnybee »

fallous wrote: post #64
elemenohpee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are you straight? Not feeling compelled to tell people about your sexuality is a luxury afforded to people who fit into the norm. It's what LGBT activists would call "privilege", and it's something that we as straight/white/male/other dominant group need to be aware of if we don't wish to alienate minority groups.

Why would my "sexuality" be a topic for anyone other than those close to me? If my wife and I like to dress up as robotic ninjas in order to get satisfaction, well then that's between my wife and I despite how "out of mainstream" it is and is no business of anyone else. I tire of the "acceptance" desire of so many people in so many areas of their lives. Tolerance != acceptance, it merely means that someone can tolera…

Are you seriously trying to compare same-sex relationships to having sexual fetishes? Your fetishes will never come up in any sort of everyday conversation, and no one has ever been discriminated against for their sexual kinks.

Asking someone to be private about who they're partners with is very discriminatory. It's not required of opposite-sex couples. And very simple freedoms you might take for granted, like holding your partners hand in public, or engaging in simple discussions, can be a battle sometimes. Compare to mixed race relationships in US history and the present day.

It's no more fair and civilized to suggest a 'don't ask don't tell' on same-sex partners than any other type of partnership. And comparing same sex attraction to a sexual fetish is frankly insulting.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#216

Post by lilsunnybee »

kgo wrote: post #91
elemenohpee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are you straight? Not feeling compelled to tell people about your sexuality is a luxury afforded to people who fit into the norm. It's what LGBT activists would call "privilege", and it's something that we as straight/white/male/other dominant group need to be aware of if we don't wish to alienate minority groups.

In the particular example of a cab driver... There are plenty of other reasons you might have kids but not a wife. Maybe you're a widower. Maybe they're actually your brother's kids, but he and his wife were killed by a drunk driver, and you're the godfather. Perfectly legitimate cases where you just have no reason to get into it with the freaking cab driver, and probably don't get into a serious conversation, and pr…

You're comparing same-sex relationships to a tragedy having occurred. It's not really a fair comparison.

You're also operating under the presumption that a same-sex partnership should be something hidden, or that it should be a touchy topic and only brought up sparingly, when frankly that's oppressive and discriminatory.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#217

Post by lilsunnybee »

typicalrunt wrote: post #120

People have the misconception that a gay person comes out once. It's not true. If you're gay and you're authentic, you're coming out constantly. You're on a business trip, for example. A cab driver asks if you have kids, and you say that you do. Then he asks about your wife. Even though you may be exhausted, you find yourself summoning the energy to have a transformative conversation with a total stranger on whom you…

You don't have to walk on eggshells when talking about issues like homosexuality or anything else. Just say what you think, and actually listen if someone brings up a valid criticism. The bigger problem here is feeling like you should never be criticized, which leads to unnecessary self-censoring and resentment over it.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#218

Post by crikli »

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #201
crikli wrote: post #146

The inference of this paragraph bugs me: "Last week, the pest control guy came to the door. "Are you Mr. Smith?" he says. "No, I'm Mr. Pallotta, Mr. Smith's partner," I reply. "Partner?" he asks. I'm being questioned in my own home. "Yes, partner," I answer. "We're a gay couple." "Oh," he says, trying to process this and maintain his composure." The writer assumes that because the pest control guy doesn't immediately…

"There's a good chance these perceived slights are in Mr. Pallotta's head ..." What? I understand the inference problem, and it's interesting to explain that as a possible solution, but do you honestly think that there's a "good chance" that the author—who experienced the situation first-hand; who had 3x more information [1] about the situation than you—was making it all up? There's a much better chance that the auth…

Oh, no, I don't think he was making anything up. I'm just questioning the accuracy of his perceptions. The phrase that really drives that is when he interprets the "partner?" question as being interrogated within his own home.

If you come by my house and asked if I have Black Ops II, I wouldn't relate the story and be like "ianstormtaylor interrogated me in my own home about an XBox game." I would only use that type of phrasing if you'd come by and started asking questions that had some type of accusatory loading.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#219

Post by pyre »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #118
pyre wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought that lover implied sex ('lover' describing that they 'make love'), which is not a given in all relationships.

It would probably be unusual (and super depressing) to have a sexless affair. I have also heard the term used in place of "fuck buddy" though.

I meant to imply that "lover" was defined as "someone you have sex with," not "someone you are having an affair with." It's just used in the context of an affair because your partner in the affair is someone you have sex with.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#220

Post by tijs »

jpwagner wrote: post #70
tijs wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A cab driver asks if you have kids" So your answer would be no? Then you'd have to lie each time. Or would your answer be; sorry but i won't answer that question. That would work i guess but it would get tiring as well i'm sure.

Do we need a course in "idle conversation"?

i'm simply suggesting your making it seems easier than it is.
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