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The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

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Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#61

Post by jrogers65 »

viraptor wrote: post #51
jrogers65 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Ghandi-style peaceful protest would fare better than what the occupy movement did. I went to the one in London and saw that the protesters were following police orders to, for example, stay in one place. This is not the way to make your voice heard and it's not what Ghandi did. You can have an active, non-violent protest. This entails disobeying any and all orders from the authorities (e.g. blocking major roads and…

> blocking access to police and government vehicles, using smoke bombs - anything which causes chaos but does not physically hurt anyone Do you really recommend becoming a terrorist in the US right now?

By that metric, the police are terrorists for using tear gas and blocking roads.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#62

Post by negrit »

sneak wrote: post #56
negrit wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I believe the best is to prove they are inefficient and a complete waste of money.

It was pg who wrote (in Good Bad Attitude, H&P p. 55): > It would be ironic if, as hackers fear, recent measures intended to protect national security and intellectual property turned out to be a missile aimed right at what makes America successful. Short of violence, I would like to do everything possible to accelerate that realization in the minds of as many Americans as possible. I think the best way to do that is…

I was actually talking about it with my roommate: if the next big companies could pop from other countries than the USA And it's actually hard the believe and here is why:

- The USA is one big country one over 300millions people, one main language, one main culture, one currency ... and a shit lot of money ready to be invested

- When you start a company in France only 60 million people few investors, a small startup world, ... And if i want to expand my company to europe, i need to get the different languages, different culture, different bank and sometimes different currency.

And if you want to invest it's harder because the VC system is different, they are not much a big fan of competition.

It's a pain is the ass to grow big quickly there and also the mentality is different.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#63

Post by ynniv »

jrogers65 wrote: post #35
gasull wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2011 and 2012 we had Occupy Wall Street and Anonymous. Probably the broadest protest movement online and offline in a long time, if not ever. And the politicians won. Wall Street won. The TSA won. They all have more power than 2 years ago. If the broadest peaceful protest couldn't make it, what possibly can?

A Ghandi-style peaceful protest would fare better than what the occupy movement did. I went to the one in London and saw that the protesters were following police orders to, for example, stay in one place. This is not the way to make your voice heard and it's not what Ghandi did. You can have an active, non-violent protest. This entails disobeying any and all orders from the authorities (e.g. blocking major roads and…

You can have an active, non-violent protest. This entails disobeying any and all orders from the authorities

What you saw in London was not representative. OWS (possibly not every instance) was doing this when they were removed by pepper spray and bulldozers. There was at least one incident where an individual was hospitalized after being hit in the head by a ballistic tear gas or smoke canister. He was not attended to by the police who injured him. Perhaps they could have been organized more effectively, but I'm not convinced that there is an amateur organization capable of peacefully resisting our current federal forces.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#64

Post by sneak »

viraptor wrote: post #51
jrogers65 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Ghandi-style peaceful protest would fare better than what the occupy movement did. I went to the one in London and saw that the protesters were following police orders to, for example, stay in one place. This is not the way to make your voice heard and it's not what Ghandi did. You can have an active, non-violent protest. This entails disobeying any and all orders from the authorities (e.g. blocking major roads and…

> blocking access to police and government vehicles, using smoke bombs - anything which causes chaos but does not physically hurt anyone Do you really recommend becoming a terrorist in the US right now?

It would appear that that's exactly what he's doing. It's not a bad tactic, though costly, and only effective if you can get dozens and dozens of thousands to participate.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#65

Post by ynniv »

jrogers65 wrote: post #61
viraptor wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> blocking access to police and government vehicles, using smoke bombs - anything which causes chaos but does not physically hurt anyone Do you really recommend becoming a terrorist in the US right now?

By that metric, the police are terrorists for using tear gas and blocking roads.

I'm fairly sure this is indeed where we are now. To be fair to the police, they are being controlled by federal organizations.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#66

Post by dalke »

sneak wrote: post #42
amirmc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "There is indeed something you can do about it. You can go live in a country where there is no TSA" In other words, give up? I find it ludicrous (and terrifying) when statements like this are made. This isn't some web-app whose terms of service you don't like, it's a nation state . People throughout history took to the streets to win freedom/voting right/etc. If no-one's left fighting back then expect to get trampl…

If a tree falls on your house and splits the roof wide open, allowing snow and rain to fall onto your bed, is it giving up to go and live in another building until the damage is repaired? There are plenty fighting back - just not in the USA, as the window for meaningful and peaceful dissent there is now closed. If you don't see that this is true today, I urge you to research the history of the US federal government's…

It's awful to argue this by analogy. If your house is full of termites, you leave, cover the house with a tent, and fumigate the inside. Should we leave the US, kill anyone who's left, and come back to a deinfested US?

Even under your analogy, you're giving one interpretation. You could be over-exaggerating the effect of the tree because you're a perfectionist who runs from the least bit of trouble. The tree might have fallen, broken a couple of roof tiles, an eave, and a window. Sure, snow and rain can come into the bed, which is right next to the window, but a tarp can easily cover the damage and you can stay in the house while you get someone to fix it.

Just because you say that the situation in the US is unlivable doesn't mean that others generally agree with your view, or even that you are right. No amount of argument by analogy, no matter how visceral, will help.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#67

Post by smutticus »

sneak wrote: post #45
smutticus wrote: post #38

How many people here are willing to get arrested? Because that's what it's going to take to reverse this trend. We need hundreds/thousands of non-violent protesters politely and professionally refusing these intrusions and getting arrested for it. Until that happens these intrusions will continue.

None, as the ionizing radiation and sexual assault at airports has clearly and unambiguously illustrated. Your notion of vast public dissent is a fantasy.

I hold no such fantasy.

I'm simply pointing out that until mass non-violent protest and the accompanying mass arrests civil liberties will continue to degrade. I never said it was going to happen. I just said it's what needs to happen.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#68

Post by Jach »

rafski wrote: post #52
sneak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline should read "everywhere _in the US_". Your comment should read "all public gatherings _in the US_". There is indeed something you can do about it. You can go live in a country where there is no TSA. (This has the added benefit of your productive energies no longer helping fund the TSA, as well, for incomes below about $92,000.) A dozen countries have a similar standard of living as the US, and many of th…

American illusion of freedom isn't something easy to grasp for people from "less free" countries who are, for instance, able to travel freely to Cuba. American expats who moved permanently abroad have to file their taxes with IRS forever. In any European state your last contact with the country's Revenue is for the last year you lived there (unless you still have income in this country). You don't have to file anythi…

I thought it's just 10 years, hardly forever. And comparing the USA to a single European nation is misleading.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#69

Post by negrit »

ynniv wrote: post #59
negrit wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analogy doesn't make any sense. I'm glad that everybody doesn't think like you do.

Sure it does. OWS was everyday people visibly and peacefully saying that they are unhappy with the way life is treating them. They were then treated as terrorists by the FBI. This sends the signal that unless you are willing to be treated as an enemy of the state, don't complain. Saying this is "uninhabitable" for normal, happy, productive people is not a widely held opinion, but it is rational.

How do you compare OWS and a house crashed by a tree. It doesn't make sense at all. The fair comparaison with a house crashed by a tree would the hurricane Katrina.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#70

Post by slavak »

GFischer wrote: post #53
colbyaley wrote: post #5

After an event I was at was targeted to be blown up, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Portland_car_bomb_plot ) I have changed my views on anti-terrorist teams at events and mass-gatherings. I do find it silly, however, that these teams are supposedly a devision of the "Transit Security Administration".

Even if your premise is valid, do you believe the people at U.S. airports are "anti-terrorist teams"? Dozens of articles refute the usefulness of the TSA, some referring to real anti-terrorist teams like Israeli ones (see some below, I can't find the best one). http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/forget_t... http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/on-... Even if, like yourself, you wa…

Interestingly, the Israeli authorities were at one point reportedly considering installing back-scatter scanners at airports.

For catching customs violations.

Thankfully the plan seems to have been scrapped, as that instant years ago was the first and last time I heard anything about it.

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