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PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

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Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#191

Post by Lt_Riza_Hawkeye »

digitalsushi wrote: post #188

My mom sure can hydrate a pizza. My grandma, rest her soul, said mom has no artistry in it. I heard stories that my grandmother worked the dough with her bare hands (ew); it always came out slightly different; more ridiculous, I heard her generation would devote a portion of an entire day (if you can even humor that ridiculous notion) to pizzacraft. Grandma was always a broken record with that stuff. The family would…

okay, but what about people who get more enjoyment out of talking to their family while performing a shared task, than eating the pizza. showing up to the pizza making session a frozen pizza from the store says "I don't want to talk to you"

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#192

Post by [deleted] »

rkagerer wrote: post #116
arnaudsm wrote: post #12

Misleading title, there's another major reason: it's an embargo agreement violation that jeopardizes Linux support on PS5. https://x.com/theflow0/status/2099987019954831744

I found it a bit hard to understand this discussion because I wasn't familiar with the background. If I've got this right, his project let you run Linux on a PlayStation 5 (thus also providing the ability to run modern games). Slop kiddies using AI discovered the PS5 hypervisor exploit it relied on for installation. Initially they agreed to his request to delay reporting it to Sony until after GTA6 came out (so users…

[deleted]

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#193

Post by user43928 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #183
Aurornis wrote: post #181

Person 1 finds an exploit the old fashioned way. Keeps it secret because they’re doing some PS5 Linux work and want to keep it unpatched until GTA6 releases in 2 weeks. I don’t have a PS5 but I assume new games might require a firmware update to play? Person 2 uses an LLM and finds the same exploit. Person 1 asks Person 2 not to report it and collect the bounty until GTA6 is released. Person 2 agrees. Person 3 also f…

> earned the bounty Yeah, nothing like the hard work of typing "look at this binary and find a bug" The sweat, the tears it must have taken!

Do you know whether this was a simple prompt or if it took an expert 20 hours with AI use?

The link is not loading for me, so I could not access the article.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#194

Post by DaSHacka »

bothers wrote: post #160
DaSHacka wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've seen this behavior from others in the space before too, it's not a one-off. They refuse to use LLMs themselves, and state as much publicly "I simply don't need to resort to using the slop machine, my skills are superior", yet FUME when others they deem as "lesser" are able to use it to achieve the same results as them, oftentimes faster . I can guarantee this post would n…

In this case, the "same result" was killing the project for money. But yeah, lol he mad, xd, etc. What a quality contribution.

That's not the fault of the model, though. Even knowledgeable people that found everything manually can (ir)responsibly disclose it to the vendor for a payout.

Just look at the iOS jailbreaking scene and how Apple repeatedly poached all the devs until there was no one left, killing it off well before LLMs.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#195

Post by IAmBroom »

sc68cal wrote: post #135
generalizations wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Projects like this probably need a dedicated noob-fork where 'anything goes', so the noobs feel like they're contributing but where their blast radius is contained. And once in a blue moon something good comes out of it back to the real project.

With how verbose LLMs are and how much code churn they generate, it will be very difficult to extract anything and apply it back upstream

The fence around the sandbox is the important part.

Cherrypicking the occasional winner is just a side benefit.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#196

Post by addandsubtract »

Aurornis wrote: post #181

Person 1 finds an exploit the old fashioned way. Keeps it secret because they’re doing some PS5 Linux work and want to keep it unpatched until GTA6 releases in 2 weeks. I don’t have a PS5 but I assume new games might require a firmware update to play? Person 2 uses an LLM and finds the same exploit. Person 1 asks Person 2 not to report it and collect the bounty until GTA6 is released. Person 2 agrees. Person 3 also f…

GTA6 is still 8 weeks away.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#197

Post by casey2 »

hypfer wrote: post #73
eugenekolo wrote: post #29

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people It is insane just how miserable the experience of FOSS hardware hacking in public is. The expectation does not even the slightest match reality. You'd think "ah yes many eyes meaning all bugs get shallow", but instead you get worst of XDA-Developers and toxic wastelands where no sane person even answers…

Isn't the problem just that open source, by it's very nature, is low quality since it comes from the unix-like ecosystem where everything is built atop everything else. So inevitably when the skid comes to you with a bug you can say "ah that's a bug in a specific build of your shell with these environment variables, myyyy code is clean as a whistle, minimal, and follows best practices" (if we ignore that in practice it depends on a billion different programs versions all of which are incorrect)

Complaining about the inevitable toxic noise when the same boneheaded development decisions are made over and over like everyone has gone insane. You don't have to build a death trap on the land your cat and children roam.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#198

Post by torginus »

whstl wrote: post #106
stroebs wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this morning I had a senior manager say to me "I was trying to do someone else's job and give them all the info so they can review it as I have no knowledge" in response to me asking for them to please filter the Claude word salad using the meat proxy. I'm pretty tired of having to do the job of filtering the low-effort copy-paste walls of text

I saw a product manager that used to do that, just ask developers to verify the Claude hallucination and placeholder numbers. He got fired quite quickly after his boss realized it was all bullshit.

I knew a manager that tried the exact same but in the GPT4 era :D He also got fired/left but as satisfying it would be to say that this was the cause of his demise I can't prove that.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#199

Post by lioeters »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #28
_zoltan_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I find this very offensive. You shouldn't, unless you're producing a bunch of code you don't understand.

They are identifying with this new powerful technology, because it makes them feel as if they're powerful also.

Like how drivers of monster trucks get a rush from feeling like the power of the machine is their own. Some users of LLMs exhibit the same kind of arrogance of being on the side of a powerful force, like the law enforcement or military. I imagine some gun owners get that rush too. When you take away the gun or the truck, suddenly they feel vulnerable.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#200

Post by hypfer »

casey2 wrote: post #197
hypfer wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people It is insane just how miserable the experience of FOSS hardware hacking in public is. The expectation does not even the slightest match reality. You'd think "ah yes many eyes meaning all bugs get shallow", but instead you get worst of XDA-Developers and toxic wastelands where no sane person even answers…

Isn't the problem just that open source, by it's very nature, is low quality since it comes from the unix-like ecosystem where everything is built atop everything else. So inevitably when the skid comes to you with a bug you can say "ah that's a bug in a specific build of your shell with these environment variables, myyyy code is clean as a whistle, minimal, and follows best practices" (if we ignore that in practice…

Yes, yes indeed.

Just like humans by their very nature are low quality, since they come from the biology ecosystem, where everything is built atop everything else.

Filthy carbon-based mammals.

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