631–640 of 648 posts
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interesting....i didn't know people still bought books from bookstore when they compete with Amazon, who are your demographics? I really do love the bookstores but haven't been in one in ages
Do you really live in a place that does not have independent bookstores? The market is a little more niche, but they still exist and can do well.
I enjoy them a lot
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I've been developing a suspicion that many people simply aren't looking at what their agents produce and can't speak to the quality of it in a fully informed way. For context, I've set up harnesses with recursive automated review loops, spec driven development, explicit lists, better models, better harnesses, formal methods tooling, etc. All of it helps, but they don't eliminate output issues. Those become very appar…
If you assume that programmers’ skills follows a bell curve, the typical output will not be better than the average. And that leads directly into your third conclusion: average programmers just do not put in the effort. That’s literally part of what makes them average.
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I still have to remind Ai not to use the n+1 pattern in queries, and fight it to stop using inconsistent inline styles vs classes, even within a single page. How are people getting this "waste of time not to use AI" and "generates 99% of my code" level of code quality? I know people's response will likely be something, something, "add instructions to memory to not use n+1", etc. But if the Ai wants to generate code t…
The truth is people just don't seem care about code quality anymore (if they ever did?). I don't think it generates great code (yes even using the state of the art, frontier, super max pro 9000 turbo boost ++ models), but it usually generates code that works. Sadly, that's all that most of the people in charge care about. I mean shit, half the time it doesn't even have to work great, look at the state of a lot of mod…
You could only argue about it when an engineer was in charge and even so when they're high up enough the pressures and incentives are to just ship fast and break stuff. Not every company can afford to be a NASA making uncrashable code that runs for 100 years and goes to pluto and all.
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A startup and a business aren't the same thing in the eyes of YC. https://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html A business is web store selling coffee cups where the bottom line governs it's continuation. A startup is ambitious project where a growth rate governs it's continuation. The end result of a business is a lemonade stand or a barber or donut shop, the end result of a startup is OpenAI or Google.
a business makes money selling a product or service. a startup makes money selling the startup
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I don’t think this is true at all. Maybe if you have an agent writing some of your code it will be 99% because its so verbose but I don’t think the modal software engineer is a vibecoder.
If you think that all instances of using AI to write code is vibe coding and you can't even spell model you might not last much longer
Your comment from 4 days ago: "Vibe coders like you who don't even understand basic fundamentals are pretty infuriating"
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What is you are writing, what is the problem domain? What does need tens of thousands of lines of code written each day? Because 100 lines of (debugged, reviewed) code per day is a good speed for seasoned software engineer. I assume that you can produce more than 100 lines of something per day as a prompt. So, what is the problem domain that requires one to write several thousands of lines of code per day?
Did they edit their comment? I don't see anything about "per day".
If they write 2 (two) lines of code, the combined output of them with LLM, as I read it now, is 20K SLOC. This is yearly output of human programmer.
It is very much possible to write 100 lines of (debugged, reviewed) code per day for human. And these 100 lines of code would result, if we apply their LLM multiplication factor, in 50 (fifty) man-years of work!
Even if they write very little code, say, one line per month, after a year of work they will get result of about 6 (six) years of human programmer. SQLite is 155K SLOC, about 8 man-years.
And that what raised my question: what is the problem domain that requires so much code?
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I agree that it's a waste of time, but I started to realize that doing it a) puts be ahead of those people who don't, yes b) but also diminishes my technical skills if I don't actively try to engage about what I'm "vibecoding" and proactively trying to understand it.
for your point a: writing code by hand puts you ahead of the people who don't write code by hand, eg, the people using LLMs to generate code? that doesn't make much sense assuming both of those personas are senior SWEs.
The big AI tech companies are still interviewing people on manual coding tasks and deep understand, which when you're vibe coding a lot, you tend to diverge from those skills, because it's just easier to use AI to "help" you a lot.
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I can't remember when I started reading HN. Possibly as late as around 2017/18. I lost one account I had when I changed company, and this is my latest account. Obviously you can't tell for sure, but I know that I am not a bot and I know that every single developer in my company (only a few hundred) have agents writing almost all of their code. I'm in the fintech industry (trading side). I have a lot of connections fr…
God, that’s depressing. The mass suicide of an entire trade.
I admit, there is/was a certain element of enjoying the zone during development sessions. But mostly, it was the problems, not the tool.
I happened to become good at coding, and good at doing it in a corporate setting, so I adapted my habits, learned to write the best sort of code that keeps a production system solid and fast. But as I say, typing the characters was never really the point. Now a very fast assistant helps me type the characters. I guide it very closely. A lot of the time I have to correct it. Often if I know it is going to probably take a wrong direction I'll write the skeleton of the code I want, write the skeleton of the tests to prove it, and give it this as a "spec". This gets fantastic results.
I haven't lost my trade at all.
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If you think that all instances of using AI to write code is vibe coding and you can't even spell model you might not last much longer
"If you think that all instances of using AI to write code is vibe coding" Your comment from 4 days ago: "Vibe coders like you who don't even understand basic fundamentals are pretty infuriating"
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Well in my personal projects I write all code by hand because people relying on agents will have forgotten how to do their fucking job in 3 years and then it will be appreciated to have people understanding what they're actually doing. That being said, in my job ai writes the code just because it's way faster.
Your "fucking job in 3 years" will be very different, and if you don't learn how to do it in time, you won't still have a job in the computer industry. Pick an industry where you can stop learning new things once you're out of school, because the computer industry is not one of them and never has been. My fucking job used to be writing 6502 assembly language on an Apple ][, and I loved it, but I hope I've forgotten e…
People neglecting this side will inevitably become less proficient at their job and become rather helpless without AI, that's all I'm saying.