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New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

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Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#371

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

dh2022 wrote: post #291
bijowo1676 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the offshoring of manufacturing started in the 50s and 60s and accelerated in the 80s. the reason is that US wanted to do specialized high value manufacturing, and was offshoring everything low value and low margin, because of increasing cost of environment and labor regulations and unions. My fear is that if US becomes hostile to foreign tech workers, they will simply create alternatives to US Big Tech in other coun…

"the offshoring of manufacturing started in the 50s and 60s and accelerated in the 80s. " - not true. Manufacturing offshoring started in late 90s in small part due to NAFTA and then accelerated when China entered WTO in early 2000s (thank you President Clinton for this one). The manufacturing employment trend shows this quite clearly I think: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp

> Manufacturing offshoring started in late 90s

Speaking as an Irish person who grew up in the 80's, this isn't true as there were loads of US companies manufacturing in Ireland back then. There were even clothes manufacturers until the mid 90s.

So I'd probably agree more with the OP here, perhaps the Asian outsourcing happened in the 90s (but even then, loads of my toys as a kid were made in Taiwan), but this has been happening for a while.

It's potentially related to the relaxation of capital controls that happened in the 70s.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#372

Post by jjav »

zvorygin wrote: post #287
rbanffy wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, for the same job, the pay in Canada is way worse. OTOH, you have free universal healthcare - and, the best part is that everyone in Canada gets it. You also have gun-free schools, abortions are considered healthcare, and, on top of all that, a sane government and a population that's considered pathologically nice to each other. Honestly, I'd take the pay cut (in fact, I did - but I live in Ireland instea…

If you have a tech job in America, you have good healthcare, your schools are safe, and you have access to abortions. All the tech jobs are in rich liberal cities. And this "sane government and a population that's considered pathologically nice to each other" is literally just the definition of chauvinism. Sure _you_ like it, and that's great. Let's not be assuming everyone in the world shares our values though.

> If you have a tech job in America, you have good healthcare, your schools are safe,

That is not true. Way too many murders in middle class schools.

Not that it should even be a justification. No school of any level should ever ever experience a murder.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#373

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

swat535 wrote: post #311
embedding-shape wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If pay and money is the only thing you care about then yeah. But for the rest of us, none of the places are "the worst place to work in tech" as long as you're in the northern hemisphere. Take a look at what the pay is in Chile if it's so scary to you.

> pay and money is the only thing you care about then yeah Yes, pay and money matter. It's why people go to US rather than Canada. If you can only afford rent on a Canadian salary as a tech worker without much profit, why come here? Canada has bad weather, expensive large cities and an overworked health care sector. At least Europe has better weather and social services.

> At least Europe has better weather and social services.

Europe is not a country, these vary wildly across members of the EU/UK/Europe more broadly.

As an Irish person, I'd love if the weather and social services were better here.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#374

Post by happytoexplain »

bijowo1676 wrote: post #365
AE9283F6D36A wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> highly skilled foreigners. All of whom would have no problem securing an O-1. The H-1B is a mess, in no small part because you can have world-class contributors and low-skill, entry-level positions applying for the same visa.

You dont know jack shit about how arbitrary the USCIS asjudication process is, thats first. Please dont ever comment on visa and paperwork matters, unless you went through that hell yourself. Second, this admin (steven miller et al) and loud wignats supporting it, want to shutdown all immigration completely, starting with high skilled one. So please lets stop pretending that wignats will accept any immigration. Just…

[dead]

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#375

Post by philipallstar »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #340
philipallstar wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, what difference does it make to bring people over to the US vs them doing the work overseas? Bringing people over has negative consequences in the US (housing demand goes up; water demand goes up; power demand goes up) and in the person's home country (money doesn't flow to the local country; good people leave who should be staying and building their own country).

The only population growth the US gets is from immigration. Cutting out skilled population growth is not a good idea!!

Skilled is a subset of what the US gets, and that at the detriment to local workers (and to the countries the skilled immigrants originate from). Though to the local business owner's they're great - much cheaper.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#376

Post by bigmadshoe »

chaostheory wrote: post #366
bigmadshoe wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just in Vancouver staying with some friends who had a 3 bedroom in a nice neighborhood for $3700CAD ($2700USD) per month. I know several people in SF paying that for a studio. Beyond anecdotes, various comparison websites have rent in SF at around 100% more than Vancouver. Obviously salaries are lower in Canada and your disposable income can very likely be lower living there if you're in tech.

For the nth time, most people who work in Silicon Valley, even the ones who work in SF, do not live in SF where the prices are more comparable to Vancouver. This is one of the major reasons we didn't move to Canada.

And not everyone who works in Vancouver lives in the city of Vancouver either. There are 10 or so other cities within commuting distance.

A fair comparison would compare areas outside of SF with areas outside of Vancouver. There are obviously some outliers like Oakland, but on average you would expect to pay 50%-100% more in rent in the Bay Area than in the Vancouver area.

There is a lot of data available online that you can find very easily. Zillow for example, regarding rent for a one bedroom:

SF average rent: $4,440 USD [1] vs. Vancouver average rent: $2,500USD [2]

Mountain view average rent: $3,395USD [3] vs Burnaby average rent: $1,989USD [4]

Union City average rent: $2400USD [5] vs Surrey average rent: $1689USD [6]

[1] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/san-fran...

[2] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/vancouve...

[3] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/mountain...

[4] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/burnaby-...

[5] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/union-ci...

[6] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/surrey-b...

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#377

Post by cvhc »

AE9283F6D36A wrote: post #355
cvhc wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an express permanent residency in 10 days This is false. Your source says it's for work permits. Though I still doubt IRCC would process an application in 10 days. My wife and I have been US tech refugees in Vancouver after our US working permits were indefinitely held for security checks. We are targeting Canadian PR through Express Entry (EE) in case we are not able to return to the US. I have to note it's not a…

> US tech refugees Could we hold off on using the term "refugee" here? My partner works with actual refugees. We're talking about a 12 year old Ukrainian girl who last saw her father comatose in a hospital bed with both legs torn off, and who witnessed her entire neighborhood turned into rubble. I doubt you and your wife moving from a safe country to another safe country makes you a refugee of any kind. Call it what…

Could we stop meaningless language policing? I give you the context and I'm not pretending to be a war refugee.

We had been living in California for years until USCIS arbitrarily hold my wife's new working permit apllication for longer than one year and had to leave the country to be able to work. The US CBP subsequentially denied my entry and revoked my visas after I visted my wife and used the same travel documents that I had used several times. I was forced to abandon my home in the US and even unable to collect my things and it almost runined my job. Her new US visa applications have been stuck in the consulate for longer than a year.

Even under UN definition, someome forced to leave their home due to unfair treatments is a refugee.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#378

Post by cvhc »

AE9283F6D36A wrote: post #358
geodel wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Canada has jumped so many times in last 8-10 years with these express residencies, hiring H1B laid off workers, grabbing people who are stuck with travel restrictions to US I'd have thought they be half way to the moon. In any case I wish well to people in Canada and Europe and people who are looking to move there. More spreaded opportunities lead to better outcome for everyone including US even if it does not…

> I mean Canada has jumped so many times in last 8-10 years with these express residencies, hiring H1B laid off workers, grabbing people who are stuck with travel restrictions to US I'd have thought they be half way to the moon. What if I told you the people Canada really want have no issues getting a US work visa/Green Card? Check out O-1 visas and EB-1/2.

> What if I told you the people Canada really want have no issues getting a US work visa/Green Card?

This is ignorant. Stop pretending like the government is just barring illegals or "low-skill" workers (as you indicate in another thread) and welcome everyone else.

I used to hold O-1. I have approved EB-1A I-140. Yet I ended up surprisingly being denied entry by the US CBP, unable to return to my home in the US, almost losing my job.

The government is targeting all fronts. Those with slightest law violations are prosecuted and deported by ICE. High-skill workers from certain backgrounds are facing increasing visa/green-card scrutiny. International students are barred from internships (see recent regulatory changes for CPT and news about potential 100K fee for OPT as well).

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#379

Post by rgbrgb »

eudamoniac wrote: post #364
rgbrgb wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> semi-skilled workers fwiw the h1-b workers I encountered in bigtech were totally on-par with their US citizen equivalents in both coding and english communication. many teams were about 50/50 in my office (SF, non-HQ). my current talent/placement company works mostly with AI startups who are usually too early to support visa requirements [0]. being able to support the lead-time and planning for international applic…

They are not supposed to be "on par" with average employees, the visa is supposed to be for exceptional talent that cannot be hired in America. There is no shortage of domestic average devs, so these average h1b devs ought to be leaving.

these were not average employees - top decile engineers i've worked with, shipping quickly and rigorously to millions of global users

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#380

Post by r_lee »

DonHopkins wrote: post #368
switchbak wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in a nation, you do have some say in the policies that directly affect your livelihood. This is the whole reason we have nations. One need not (always) invoke racism or xenophobia to explain why folks might take issue with high levels of immigration. It’s so politically charged now that people’s brains just turn off and everyone calls each other Nazis. But it is a discussion that does require nuance, espe…

> It's so politically charged now that people's brains just turn off and everyone calls each other Nazis. What's worse is when people's brains just turn off and they defend and support an actual trillionaire Nazi with immense political power and an international propaganda platform. You're replying to someone who is on the record defending Musk's Nazi salute by calling people names and attacking anyone who recognizes…

How are you so obsessed with me? this is insane.

> Nevertheless, he'll attack you for merely reading it, as if you're the weirdo for reading what he intentionally posted, rather than him for posting it publicly.

this is just false information and you know it, I have posted everything in plain view for you and everybody else, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49671155 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49678118

again like I said:

"I have gone out of my way to be reasonable with you and argue with you in good faith, and you keep bringing insults and accusations and keep implying that I'm a Nazi or something.

Think about it, you're so upset over the fact that I don't consider a colored block drag and drop interface/system a real programming language that's used in the real world that you're doing all this and constantly attacking me and getting angry over my very reasonable arguments

It's unhealthy and you should maybe ask one of those friends if what you're doing is reasonable or not. Maybe they can get you the help you need."

full context is at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49678118 along with his dead comments (assuming the mods removed them)

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