The H1B debate has a lot of factions, but one thing is clear: AI is going to be replacing some to a lot of entry level knowledge jobs. Even if it doesn't get any better than what we have now, it'll create a pipeline problem where senior engineers are more valuable than ever and we'll have to figure out how to make room for junior engineers so that eventually they can become senior engineers. Given that, it seems prud…
New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
361–370 of 384 posts
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are several websites aggregating rent data that put SF rent at around 2x that of Vancouver, which is itself the most expensive city in Canada. I agree that many people would be worse off financially moving to Canada due to the lower salaries. But the claim that cost of living is the same is categorically false.
Yet you keep missing the point. “Was”. I am not saying prices today or equal. I am simply saying when I did the math pre Covid the cost of living was very similar all things considered. Like I already said the link you provided looks like a bunch of bad data so truly hard to tell. Categorically false are strong words without any data!
SF average rent: $4,795USD [1]
Vancouver average rent: $2840USD [2]
[1] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/san-fran...
[2] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/vancouve...
I would say categorically false is accurate and an anecdote from 7 years ago isn't adding anything productive to the conversation.
EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that you said "all things considered". I think we agree that when you factor in salary, it is financially worse to live in Canada. I just noticed a lot of completely inaccurate statements about the rent being the same which I was trying to correct. Apologies if you got caught in the crossfire.
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Looks like there is need for 2 separate visa categories: - One to bring top 0.1% talent from across the globe to the US - Another to bring in temporary talent as needed O-1 is for exceptional talent ("extraordinary ability"). Bring exceptional talent, eliminate the H-1B visa. It's that simple.
O1 is also starting to get "gamed".
When you actually want to identify talent, it works the same way everywhere. You find other experts in the field you can trust and ask them to use their subjective judgment. Governments don't want to do that unless it's absolutely critical, as it goes against the prevailing theory of how government bureaucracy is supposed to work. Even if the government is willing to give outside experts the power to make the decisions, the experts probably don't want to accept the liability that comes with it. Which leaves the final decisions to government officials who rarely have the expertise to evaluate the claims on their own.
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
The economics don’t make any more sense for Canada or the EU than they do for the US. The the new $100k H1B fee was imposed because companies have a huge financial incentive to import semi-skilled workers from lower-wage markets rather than hire domestically. Canada and the EU face the same problem. In tech, it's about the kinds of work inexperienced/cheap developers are often doing: assembly line, JIRA-ticket-taker…
> semi-skilled workers fwiw the h1-b workers I encountered in bigtech were totally on-par with their US citizen equivalents in both coding and english communication. many teams were about 50/50 in my office (SF, non-HQ). my current talent/placement company works mostly with AI startups who are usually too early to support visa requirements [0]. being able to support the lead-time and planning for international applic…
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
there is no smart argument to ban H1B. Its all pure jingoism and racism. There is really nothing else here. The fact that America is global tech leader is thanks to foreigners, all these FAANGs and MAG7s and OpenAI and Anthropic, the paper "Transformers is all your need", everything was created by highly skilled foreigners. Without foreigners there is no tech sector, no sweet MAG7 and FAANG stock returns, America wou…
> highly skilled foreigners. All of whom would have no problem securing an O-1. The H-1B is a mess, in no small part because you can have world-class contributors and low-skill, entry-level positions applying for the same visa.
Second, this admin (steven miller et al) and loud wignats supporting it, want to shutdown all immigration completely, starting with high skilled one.
So please lets stop pretending that wignats will accept any immigration. Just say you sont want brown people, and that will be honest at least.
A lot of H1Bs are more qualified than the O-1 just because its easier to get coming from top tier Ivy League school and phd
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Vancouver metro real estate and rent are roughly the same as the SF Bay Area while having a fraction of the pay I only know this because we thought of relocating to Canada
I was just in Vancouver staying with some friends who had a 3 bedroom in a nice neighborhood for $3700CAD ($2700USD) per month. I know several people in SF paying that for a studio. Beyond anecdotes, various comparison websites have rent in SF at around 100% more than Vancouver. Obviously salaries are lower in Canada and your disposable income can very likely be lower living there if you're in tech.
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
Were they on H1Bs? Most I knew from similar countries in the Bay Area wouldn’t have been. But these visas aren’t about best, btw. They’re about none available. The goalpost has moved to “none available for my price in the most expensive place on earth.” In my experience, the overall effect of these policies was hiring foreign masters students who were more exploitable over American undergraduates who would require th…
They all eventually became permanent residents and citizens. But they all start off as h1 or the one that lets you stay a while after finishing a PhD. Some switched to O-1 (or whatever the extraordinary talent one is). I’ve worked with some amazing Austrians who had to go to 3rd country for a year waiting for the lottery.
But I am American: most of us couldn't even guess our own ethnic origins after a couple generations, especially if our ancestors weren't affluent. That fundamental difference in worldview makes all these discussions so difficult.
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean that's what it's always been about, be virtuous about everything unless it actually affects you and your gated neighborhood
If you live in a nation, you do have some say in the policies that directly affect your livelihood. This is the whole reason we have nations. One need not (always) invoke racism or xenophobia to explain why folks might take issue with high levels of immigration. It’s so politically charged now that people’s brains just turn off and everyone calls each other Nazis. But it is a discussion that does require nuance, espe…
What's worse is when people's brains just turn off and they defend and support an actual trillionaire Nazi with immense political power and an international propaganda platform.
You're replying to someone who is on the record defending Musk's Nazi salute by calling people names and attacking anyone who recognizes it for what it is or points out how it aligns with everything else Musk has said and done.
Set showdead=true and read his posting history. If he didn't want people reading his full-throated defense of Musk's Nazi salute and his attacks on anyone who disagrees, he shouldn't have posted them. Nevertheless, he'll attack you for merely reading it, as if you're the weirdo for reading what he intentionally posted, rather than him for posting it publicly.
Ask him to post a video of himself performing that Nazi salute and he flips out and calls you names. So he plainly understands what it means: he thinks it's defensible when a trillionaire oligarch does it on international television, and feels obligated to defend it himself, but would never perform that exact same Nazi salute himself -- and becomes irrational and hostile when asked to explain why not.
By "calling people names," I mean his own words:
Political: "social justice warriors," "in an echo chamber," "literally fascism," "a bit fascist," "silencing the opposition," and "censoring others."
Mental-health smears: "lost their mind," "consistently hostile," "frustrated," "so upset," "getting angry," "unhealthy," "unhinged," "What is wrong with you?" and "Maybe they can get you the help you need."
Dishonesty and stupidity: "are you pretending to be stupid here?", "your 'act'," "projecting," "lying and spreading lies," and "I'm here in good faith (unlike you)."
Personal attacks: "emotionally attached," "unable to take criticism," "convinced that no matter what, you're right," "used to always having your way," "reevaluate your life choices," "I find your conduct pretty embarrassing here," "You need to self-reflect," and "You need to cool down."
That's his argument technique: replace evidence with ideological labels, personal attacks, tone-policing, reality-reversal, and amateur psychiatric diagnoses. Precisely the nuance-free, brain-off political name-calling you rightly warned against.
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope, cost of living is what matters and at least at the time major Canadian metros were as if not more expensive than SF/NYC and got you a 1/4th of the pay. I am sure that’s attractive to some but sounds pretty miserable. Chile I imagine has pretty good cost of living economics. Anecdotally most of my friends in Latin and South America live upper middle class on software salaries.
> Anecdotally most of my friends in Latin and South America live upper middle class on software salaries And your North American friends do not? Please. The commonality is that software engineers all across the globe live pretty great, compared to their local peers. But of course, compare them to inflated NYC/SV salaries and everything looks like peanuts.
It's not even close. Both my current and previous company have substantial percentage of engineering in Mexico so I have good visibility into this. Even middle-tier software engineer salary band in Mexico allows for a very comfortable high class life. Whereas the same level engineer in Silicon Valley is crushed by rental costs without not too much left over, and if they also have kids expenses they are barely scraping by.
Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore
#370Canada is jumping on this opportunity to invite the US tech workers who are frustrated with US H1B visa restrictions and GC backlog by offering an express permanent residency in 10 days https://canadabychoice.com/services/move-to-canada/usa/occup... Canada also floating idea of alliance with Europe for travel and job opportunities https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-european-union-eu-me...
In my experience, people who didn’t make it in the H-1B lottery go to Canada, try the L-1 and come back to the United States. It’s good for Canada to offer a work permit so quickly, but I’m just not seeing people willing to obtain permanent residency in Canada. After all, for the same job, the pay in Canada is way worse. In fact I’m seeing Canadian citizens come to the U.S. to get a big salary bump while doing the sa…