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Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

andonlabs.com

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Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#501

Post by tyeaglet »

aurareturn wrote: post #453
hypfer wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now it's weird if an agent isn't writing 99% of your code. It is? Are you sure that this is a representative reading that applies to more than just a tiny bubble?

It's probably 99.99%. 99% means I write 1 line for every 100 AI lines. It's probably 1 human line for every 10,000 AI lines right now.

Thing is, lines of code was never a good metric in software engineering (at least it shouldn’t have been). When people talk about “~% of code” I feel certain dissonance between what they’re measuring and what they’re actually doing. I mean, you certainly want to type less for working code, sure - that’s why programmers develop high level languages. Maybe now we should consider how to code with AI and how well/terrible different approaches are doing. Just saying “99% by AI” doesn’t sound like a good way of saying things are replaced by AI. I mean a lot of things will be replaced by AI, but at least not because of/according to lines of code.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#503

Post by [deleted] »

dakolli wrote: post #489
aurareturn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine. It will be 99.99% for everyone soon except those who identify as an coding artisan. There are still people who ride horses.

The llm induced dunning krueger from you larper types is really funny. Software isnt all shitty webapps is you vibe coders create and declare software solved. None of the code written for a pacemaker, medical imaging, weapons systems, and thousands of other perf critical domains are written by llms in any meaningful sense. Not everything runs in a browser. Three years ago you asked this lol: https://news.ycombinator.…

[deleted]

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#504

Post by unclebucknasty »

_zoltan_ wrote: post #480
hypfer wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now it's weird if an agent isn't writing 99% of your code. It is? Are you sure that this is a representative reading that applies to more than just a tiny bubble?

Yes, it is a waste of time right now not to use AI to write code. It's the same category of "artisan code" like "artisan cheese": you can do it if you have a ton of free time as a hobby but other than a hobby? Not worth it.

I still have to remind Ai not to use the n+1 pattern in queries, and fight it to stop using inconsistent inline styles vs classes, even within a single page.

How are people getting this "waste of time not to use AI" and "generates 99% of my code" level of code quality?

I know people's response will likely be something, something, "add instructions to memory to not use n+1", etc. But if the Ai wants to generate code this bad, then it represents an overall quality risk that would require an infinite memory file.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#505

Post by thesz »

aurareturn wrote: post #453
hypfer wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now it's weird if an agent isn't writing 99% of your code. It is? Are you sure that this is a representative reading that applies to more than just a tiny bubble?

It's probably 99.99%. 99% means I write 1 line for every 100 AI lines. It's probably 1 human line for every 10,000 AI lines right now.

What is you are writing, what is the problem domain? What does need tens of thousands of lines of code written each day?

Because 100 lines of (debugged, reviewed) code per day is a good speed for seasoned software engineer. I assume that you can produce more than 100 lines of something per day as a prompt.

So, what is the problem domain that requires one to write several thousands of lines of code per day?

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#506

Post by cellu »

idopmstuff wrote: post #227
j2kun wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their blog [1] "I acquire e-commerce brands that sell on Amazon" Honestly it sounds like the OP is part of the machine that makes Amazon such a trashy marketplace these days. [1]: https://theautomatedoperator.substack.com/p/15-ways-im-using...

Well that's not very nice! And for the record, I only buy brands that sell high-quality products. Marketing and operations I can fix, but if the stuff they sell is no good, there's no point.

How do you identify them and choose what to invest in? I guess you do not really have access to their technical specifics or sales volumes.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#507

Post by weird-eye-issue »

nxc18 wrote: post #427
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that all instances of using AI to write code is vibe coding and you can't even spell model you might not last much longer

“Modal” is a word. The AI brainrot is real.

Unfortunately I was like this long before LLMs, trust me ;)

And yes I know it's a word, I know at least two meanings it has but in this particular usage I was not familiar with it. Anyways, I was wrong and I will take the L

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#508

Post by DonHopkins »

hangrybear666 wrote: post #477
sothatsit wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I have talked to who uses coding agents at all now uses them to write almost all their code. The two people I know who don’t use coding agents work in government, and in a data science company working with government. I’d say if you work at a tech company and agents aren’t writing the majority of your code, that is weird. But if you work at a traditional company that doesn’t have Claude or Codex subscription…

Well in my personal projects I write all code by hand because people relying on agents will have forgotten how to do their fucking job in 3 years and then it will be appreciated to have people understanding what they're actually doing. That being said, in my job ai writes the code just because it's way faster.

Your "fucking job in 3 years" will be very different, and if you don't learn how to do it in time, you won't still have a job in the computer industry.

Pick an industry where you can stop learning new things once you're out of school, because the computer industry is not one of them and never has been.

My fucking job used to be writing 6502 assembly language on an Apple ][, and I loved it, but I hope I've forgotten enough of it to have room to learn new things. If only I could forget all those hex I/O and peripheral addresses from $C000-$CFFF and the Monitor ROM routines from $F800-$FFFF, without forgetting how brilliantly beautiful Woz and and Allen Baum's code is.

https://6502disassembly.com/a2-rom/OrigF8ROM.html

Forgetting old stuff to make room for new stuff is one of the most valuable skills you can have in this industry.

The next most important skill is persistence ;) -- writing stuff down before you forget it, in a way that won't make future-you hate present-you when you need to learn it again.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#509

Post by pjc50 »

whstl wrote: post #330
piterrro wrote: post #31

Interesting to see these experiments. This is early but imagine in few years there will be companies mostly run by agents with a light overview from a human operator. What then happens to scaling of the bussinesses? I would assume, just like today anyone can vibe code an app, there will be vibecoded bussinesses. Maybe its time to start building infrastructure for these bussinesses instead, its a non existent market y…

After seeing a crazy amount of non-programmers, sometimes with 10 years of experience, basically turning off their brains and offloading most their thinking to some LLM and turning their days into "please check this product and tell me what I should do next", I don't see why not. I've seen: designers, performance marketers, data scientists, SEO experts, product managers, engineering managers, CRM expert, all using it…

Isn't that .. what people were told to do? To use AI for as much of their job as possible?

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#510

Post by rcxdude »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #504
_zoltan_ wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a waste of time right now not to use AI to write code. It's the same category of "artisan code" like "artisan cheese": you can do it if you have a ton of free time as a hobby but other than a hobby? Not worth it.

I still have to remind Ai not to use the n+1 pattern in queries, and fight it to stop using inconsistent inline styles vs classes, even within a single page. How are people getting this "waste of time not to use AI" and "generates 99% of my code" level of code quality? I know people's response will likely be something, something, "add instructions to memory to not use n+1", etc. But if the Ai wants to generate code t…

Probably the largest part is that this kind of code quality is not that important to a lot of devs and applications. Personally I would not describe the majority of code I work on as particularly hard, the challenge was always in getting what I needed done efficiently as opposed to getting it done at all, and LLMs are extremely helpful for that. Though I think I'm more at 90% LLM-generated code, I still do spend a fair bit of time tidying up layout (and any user-visible prose).
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