Anyone have an LG TV, access to ghidra and a desire to dig in and release open firmware? Because I have have everything but the TV
216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
971–980 of 1001 posts
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#972Earlier quoted context omitted.
IANAL but without concent I think LG is comitting a crime here. The owner who ostensibly agreed to obtain concent through the ToS might be breaking their agreement, but wouldn't that be a separate issue? ToS and other click licenses have been making shit up for way too long.
If I'm a passenger in a tesla, does the owner and/or tesla break a law when neither informs me that I'm being spied on?
Maybe? If they aren't we should change our laws so that they would be. We don't have to normalize or accept companies wiretapping and spying on people just because spying makes those companies more profit.
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#973Earlier quoted context omitted.
Norman Doors. Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles. The same reason you see a handle on a door a pill before you read the sign that says push. The sign is literally there because the physical design is telling you something different. It is literally mixed signals. Apple could have done many different things to make the design clea…
Notice the bluetooth toggle only says it disconnects bluetooth devices until tomorrow. It doesnt turn off bluetooth because there is a profit incentive to keep all devices meshing for use in FindMy and AirTags and all that. Same with WiFi. It doesnt even turn WiFi off, it just "disconnects" but keeps WiFi searching and whatever else. Why not have the option to make the toggle actually do the same thing as having to g…
I'd claim it is a bit worse. They use dark patterns here. You can see in another sibling's comment that we disagree on this but I think Apple is teaching the user the wrong thing. And I agree with you that actually disabling is confusing and difficult unless you've already learned their pattern. But at that point it is still needlessly cumbersome, which I'd still call a dark pattern
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#974Earlier quoted context omitted.
Respectfully disagree. Toggle buttons have an expected behavior that everyone understands. It should work just like a physical button. I don’t appreciate the “we know better for you so we’ll adjust the behavior accordingly” MITM.
> we know better for you so we’ll adjust the behavior accordingly 9/10 times I've used this setting, what I've actually wanted was to temporarily change the behavior. This just saves me from the need to remember to undo it (which I won't remember in a timely manner). This isn't "we know better than you" paternalistic control - the default/easy behavior should cater to the actions and situation we do regularly. I'm su…
It should be symmetrically facile to do both behaviors, assuming there's not an invisible thumb on the scale that wants to procedurally force you to make the choice most in the company's interest. But its not.
It is more effortful, more complex, and requires greater care to actually get Wifi and Bluetooth to the OFF state than ON, or ON+CONNECTED. Respectfully, that is backwards, it should be the easiest thing to turn something off.
Yet, here there is needless nuance added because there is a benefit to the company that the device is either chronically or as much as possible connected to the internet, connected to bluetooth, low battery mode is off, and if they cant have it connected to the internet and bluetooth, well, at least keep the beaconing on and sending out signals and at least meshing so advertisers and stores and their own Find/lost services are still able to benefit.
Thats not even getting into passive Fingerprinting and secondary furtive location tracking. I was surprised to learn that having bluetooth on identifies your device to stores and anyone else who can track bluetooth devices in range. Even when you toggled off bluetooth, you're still being profiled. I wonder if actually going into settings and turning off bluetooth or wifi even totally stops the device from continuing to signal in all ways, it would be unsurprising if thats another UI nicety that doesnt actually mean what it says or implies
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#975Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been searching for one hour, and the only truly safe thing is an HTPC linked to an OS-free commercial display like these large VAs from ViewSonic: https://www.viewsonic.com/global/products/commercial-display... (goes from 45" to 100").
What software would you install on the HTPC? User will typically want to have a remote control and have applications like youtube.
At first I thought about something like https://libreelec.tv/ but Kodi instead of the much more powerful mpv is not an option.
So probably a custom lightweight distro with mpv outputting to DRM directly and a game controller to navigate some file explorer ? Maybe try to script around some speech-to-text LLM to be able to say "Play me X", heh.
Or just control it via ssh because that's actually simpler for me.
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#976Earlier quoted context omitted.
IANAL, but only the owner can consent through the TOS. The owner does not collect or process the data, so it's entirely on LG to ensure proper consent, not the owner. Breaking a TOS is not a crime, and can only be punished by restricting or disallowing access to a service, but collecting personal data without consent is a huge problem in the EU.
It’s clearly unreasonable to assume that LG can know and procure consent from everyone you choose to allow into your living room. It’s reasonable to push the burden of procuring that consent onto whoever controls entry to the space, with terms like this. As a thought experiment, let’s take a service like Zoom where you can record video of participants. It’s reasonable to say “you’re operating the camera, if someone a…
> It’s clearly unreasonable to assume that LG can know and procure consent from everyone you choose to allow into your living room.
If only they had a big interface to ask the user to push [AGREE] to consent to be spied upon. I would call it a RemoteVision and put the button in a wireless TeleControl so the user can easily agree every time they turn on the device.
We might not have the technological capabilities for this, but one can dream.
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#977Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I'm a passenger in a tesla, does the owner and/or tesla break a law when neither informs me that I'm being spied on?
Maybe? If they aren't we should change our laws so that they would be. We don't have to normalize or accept companies wiretapping and spying on people just because spying makes those companies more profit.
Is a tesla spying on you by default and uploading onboard audio and video? If so, yes definitely that is a crime.
If the Tesla is monitoring for whether you are awake behind the wheel and sounds the alarm without that information ever leaving the car, that is another thing entirely.
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#978Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are limits. You can’t waive certain rights, and you can’t overwrite certain laws. The issue is that we haven’t made this shit against the law yet.
The problem is the ToS can be overruled by the law. But you can still put wild stuff in there without consequence, it just won't hold up in court of course. However this makes it so that companies use the ToS as a scare tactic to deter people going to court in the first place, "look you agreed to us being able to do something illegal, you will lose court against our expensive lawyers". ToS from a lot of tech companie…
What's even crazier is that companies doing this have a full team of lawyers, they know it won't hold up in court, but they also know there are no consequences for deliberately put things there that won't hold up in court.
A bit more crazy that they are gambling on the likelihood of winning in case they are actually challenged, cementing a twisted precedent just to keep the next quarter on trend.
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#979Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe? If they aren't we should change our laws so that they would be. We don't have to normalize or accept companies wiretapping and spying on people just because spying makes those companies more profit.
Is a tesla spying on you by default and uploading onboard audio and video? If so, yes definitely that is a crime. If the Tesla is monitoring for whether you are awake behind the wheel and sounds the alarm without that information ever leaving the car, that is another thing entirely.
I know that internally Tesla was passing around videos of people having sex in their cars. Seems more like spying to me.
Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]
#980Modems becoming super cheap is gonna be a big problem for this, because those make it even harder to prevent such snooping. Just imagine having to jam the devices in your own home just to stop them from profiling you. Better pray to your deer god that modem + data contract is gonna stay more expensive that the expected value from selling more data... We really need regulation to stop this.