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GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

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Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#101

Post by pmlnr »

rickdeckard wrote: post #42
pmlnr wrote: post #24

> If you root or jailbreak your devices, you've, by their very nature, broken their security. Wow. Please stop spreading things like this. Not having root means not owning a device you paid for and have in your home.

True, but rooting the device de-facto means breaking the trust-chain of the OS. The inevitable outcome of this video is that TV vendors are pushed to harden the security and preserve the trust-chain, because part of the (valid) claim is that nefarious actors may break the security to use the device for spying on you. With support from an actual journalist, it could be reframed to also emphasize the importance of cont…

> True, but rooting the device de-facto means breaking the trust-chain of the OS.

Like every single Microsoft laptop out there does so? Think a bit harder before sentences like this, please.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#102

Post by p0lychromatic »

pmlnr wrote: post #98
p0lychromatic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people here do not want to hear it, but it is a very two-sided sword. Of course root allows you to tinker with your device and make it run what you want, but: - Rooted devices make devices unpredictable. As shown in the video: How do you trust that your hotel/AirBnB is not using root on _their_ TV to use its microphone to spy on you? Or actually records your video output (instead of "just" ACRing it)? - Re-sel…

> Rooted devices make devices unpredictable. you/we/me not having root while, for example, Google Play Services does on invalidates everything you said.

Isn't that more predictable though, if you know that Google Play Services does shady stuff? :)

Compared to, say, random Magisk modules or some random crap the OEM developed?

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#103

Post by croon »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #81
rcxdude wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This control-freak nature of manufacturers is sadly what makes me cheer for the security holes much of the time.

Yet here we are, in this thread, discussing why LG is spying on us. While some stuff are legit issues such as ADR, people now think they are wire-tapping. Because somebody used a rooted device to show-case recording silently through their device. Can you blame corporations having this control-freak nature when shit like this happens? It's stuff like this that likely pushes corporations now to invest more into device…

> While some stuff are legit issues such as ADR, people now think they are wire-tapping. Because somebody used a rooted device to show-case recording silently through their device.

> Can you blame corporations having this control-freak nature when shit like this happens?

Is "shit like this" referring to the corporation spying on the user, or the user discovering it? Because one happened before the other, and so impossibly could have caused the former.

> It's stuff like this that likely pushes corporations now to invest more into device security, and locking down their stuff more.

Or they could just sell the device users want, and not sell their users.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#104

Post by expedition32 »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #20

I think the author took the wrong message from the video. His arguments are all - yes everyone does this not just lg; :) - yes it can be used to track the user; but unless you literally go into lg ads hq, you can’t say they don’t - they rooted to trigger this; well the os and system apps don’t need root, we need it to observe. If the author is here please consider these as the reasons to why an LG customer would be m…

LG has an ads subsidiary, whose CEOs and executives constantly go on investor meetings claiming “they own the glass”, “they own the living room”, “they own the network and devices” in the “lg household”

Uhm every tech bro does this it is what makes the tech industry a fucking Bond villain lol.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#105

Post by psd1 »

cassianoleal wrote: post #97
drbscl wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as the owner of an LG OLED, I paid a premium for a good quality panel, and expect it to be mine. Also, I anticipated ads on a smart TV (unfortunately it's inevitable), but (wrongly) assumed that such invasive tracking and "we own the glass" would be a bar too low even for the budget manufacturers. I'm never buying any LG product ever again.

I have an LG OLED as well. When I bought it, it was the previous year's flagship. I am also mad at this. I also had an LG washing machine. The dispenser plastic drawer broke after a year of use. After over a week of multiple emails and calls with the shop, LG themselves and third-party spares shops trying to get a replacement, I bought a Bosch. I am also never buying anything from LG again.

Your broken waking machine drawer is an orthogonal problem, and perhaps not specific to one corp. Plastic parts break but, OTOH, overbuilding consumes resources with diminishing utility. A deep spare parts market is a cost.

May i suggest basic home repair? Two techniques that work in many cases are:

- "welding" with a soldering iron, using cable tie as a filler rod. You'll want good ventilation and a sacrificial tip - epoxy repair putty

Superglue (cyanoacrylate) tends to give disappointing results on its own, but can be a good first step before putty. Putty can be reinforced with some kind of fibre. Never use cyanoacrylate with the welding technique (cyanide).

I don't love the model profusion that makes spare parts markets inefficient, but free markets are inefficient all over the place. Price in the externalities.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#106

Post by psd1 »

rickdeckard wrote: post #66
lukeschlather wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LG's terms of service essentially state that they will record any voice commands and store them for 6 months. They explicitly say they may store them in Korea. https://us.lgappstv.com/main/terms Actually I think everything you're suggesting is unclear, LG explicitly say they do these things in their ToS. I skimmed their privacy policy, and I'm pretty sure it essentially says they collect all this information and use…

Yeah, and here's the part that's interesting to me as a EU-consumer: This wording doesn't exist in the European ToS: https://gb.lgappstv.com/main/terms#tabContentTerms6 So there's the angle that US is lacking the proper regulation, and the angle that LG may have violated its ToS in the EU. But neither of this is going to get pinned down if everything is bunched together without focus and clear evidence...

The numerical majority of developed counties have some kind of privacy law. Murrica is an outlier, because of course it is.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#107

Post by expedition32 »

bakugo wrote: post #69
jeffbee wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if GN wants to keep my attention on this topic they need to edit out all the stuff about normal Wi-Fi stack behaviors and normal local device discovery behaviors. They didn't need to pad their feature-length video with these non-issues.

GN has sadly been trending towards overly long, rambly clickbait videos in recent years, in line with the rest of Youtube. Most of their videos could easily convey the same information with a third of the length. It's unfortunate, because they're one of the few voices speaking out about issues like this.

Apparently 40 percent of Dutch fifteen year olds can't read. So YouTube is unfortunately the future.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#108

Post by laylower »

Why is this a post even? What is it that the author is trying to say or take a view on?

They literally write "Now, I’m not going to claim to be a network expert. I may be totally off-base, but what? Reverse DNS? I don't know what this means."

The findings are a smoking gun already.

The bar shouldn't be a video of an NSA agent or someone from LG listening your everyday life. I don't doubt this happens but we shouldn't expect gamernexus to be able to prove it.

Jesus some people with their whataboutism and nihilism.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#109

Post by pid0x17 »

Havoc wrote: post #86

I’m convinced the only thing saving us from hardware manufacturers security incompetence is NAT

I am still somewhat new to networking concepts (currently reading Computer Networking: A Top Down Approach by Kurose & Ross), and as far as I understood, most IPv6 networks don't have a NAT, or did I misunderstand? If that is the case, that means homes using IPv6 have globally routable IP addresses for their connected devices, right?

Would the router's firewall protect it if it denies incoming connections?

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#110

Post by stdbrouw »

psd1 wrote: post #105
cassianoleal wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an LG OLED as well. When I bought it, it was the previous year's flagship. I am also mad at this. I also had an LG washing machine. The dispenser plastic drawer broke after a year of use. After over a week of multiple emails and calls with the shop, LG themselves and third-party spares shops trying to get a replacement, I bought a Bosch. I am also never buying anything from LG again.

Your broken waking machine drawer is an orthogonal problem, and perhaps not specific to one corp. Plastic parts break but, OTOH, overbuilding consumes resources with diminishing utility. A deep spare parts market is a cost. May i suggest basic home repair? Two techniques that work in many cases are: - "welding" with a soldering iron, using cable tie as a filler rod. You'll want good ventilation and a sacrificial tip…

I used to think this too, but e.g. Bosch and IKEA have great replacement parts websites accessible to the consumer. IKEA’s parts are mostly free, too! With modern logistics (automated warehouses, cheap shipping, ordering online) it is actually a solvable problem, if the company gives a damn about it.
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