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GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

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Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#81

Post by p0lychromatic »

rcxdude wrote: post #63
mort96 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Responsible disclosure makes sense when the user and the manufacturer have the same goal of the product being secure. Jailbreaking is a case where the user and the manufacturer have opposing goals: the user wants to be in charge their hardware, the manufacturer wants to prevent the user from being in charge of their own hardware. Responsible disclosure doesn't make sense, the manufacturer would just patch the vulnera…

Exactly. This control-freak nature of manufacturers is sadly what makes me cheer for the security holes much of the time.

Yet here we are, in this thread, discussing why LG is spying on us.

While some stuff are legit issues such as ADR, people now think they are wire-tapping. Because somebody used a rooted device to show-case recording silently through their device.

Can you blame corporations having this control-freak nature when shit like this happens?

It's stuff like this that likely pushes corporations now to invest more into device security, and locking down their stuff more.

Good for security and the corporation.

Maybe mid-term good for you consumer, because they might get more cautious with tracking stuff.

But long-term bad for you consumer, too, because they will make sure to lock down their devices better.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#82

Post by mort96 »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #81
rcxdude wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This control-freak nature of manufacturers is sadly what makes me cheer for the security holes much of the time.

Yet here we are, in this thread, discussing why LG is spying on us. While some stuff are legit issues such as ADR, people now think they are wire-tapping. Because somebody used a rooted device to show-case recording silently through their device. Can you blame corporations having this control-freak nature when shit like this happens? It's stuff like this that likely pushes corporations now to invest more into device…

The best solution is obviously sanctioned rooting so that vulnerabilities can be freely shared with manufacturers and fixed.

But that's not going to happen.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#83

Post by m4rtink »

rickdeckard wrote: post #42
pmlnr wrote: post #24

> If you root or jailbreak your devices, you've, by their very nature, broken their security. Wow. Please stop spreading things like this. Not having root means not owning a device you paid for and have in your home.

True, but rooting the device de-facto means breaking the trust-chain of the OS. The inevitable outcome of this video is that TV vendors are pushed to harden the security and preserve the trust-chain, because part of the (valid) claim is that nefarious actors may break the security to use the device for spying on you. With support from an actual journalist, it could be reframed to also emphasize the importance of cont…

The trust chain is long broken since the TV is spying on you a the manufacturer is bragging about them "owning the glass and the living room".

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#84

Post by m4rtink »

badsectoracula wrote: post #2

> If he can demonstrate someone remotely jailbreaking your TV, or flipping on those settings without you knowing or doing anything to your TV, that would be a far more damning issue, in my view. Do you actually want a channel with 2.66 million subscribers to show how to get remote access to TVs used by millions of people? :-P

Yeah, why not ? LG should make their stuff secure (by not shipping bloat and spyware), so it is on them.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#85

Post by m4rtink »

nokeya wrote: post #37
p0lychromatic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad idea is that by rooting, you can (of course) turn your device into a 24/7 surveillance device that sends voice and video data everywhere. That does not mean that LG does all that by default.

Because of course it does. You are fighting the wrong side, they should proof they are good, not you defend them.

Yeah, it is insane a fully open source firmware with reproducible builds is not a minimum standard for something as sensitive as a modern smart TV.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#87

Post by sersi »

mort96 wrote: post #78
bcraven wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being deliberately obtuse. You would update software on a TV for all the same reasons you update software on any other device: improved performance, better compatibly, new features, etc

No. My computer is a tool I actively use. The TV is an almost entirely passive consumption device. Was performance not good enough when it was new? If it wasn't, will the new software versions truly buck the trend we've seen in software for the past few decades and improve performance? What new features are necessary? Video playback has been a solved problem for the past few decades.

With streaming apps unfortunately you can run in compatibility issues if you do not update. So for people using the TV for streaming, it does make sense to at least update that part of the software.

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#88

Post by handoflixue »

lovich wrote: post #76
p0lychromatic wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you build reputation if everyone starts tells you to build reputation first? You have to start somewhere. Better makes sense to start looking at the arguments rather than the author. It also helps you train your brain. Stop trusting someone solely because of who they are.

This is hacker news. Not Reddit. You can comment about anything here and build credibility. Just don’t start on the most divisive topics.

Four relevant bullet points from the Hacker News Guidelines:

* When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names.

* Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

* Please don't post shallow dismissals

* Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.

And yet not once does it mention "don't start commenting on divisive topics"

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#89

Post by p0lychromatic »

m4rtink wrote: post #85
nokeya wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of course it does. You are fighting the wrong side, they should proof they are good, not you defend them.

Yeah, it is insane a fully open source firmware with reproducible builds is not a minimum standard for something as sensitive as a modern smart TV.

It is not the minimum standard for computers. Why should it be for TVs?

Re: GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea

#90

Post by sersi »

p0lychromatic wrote: post #71
like_any_other wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know that TV you bought is untampered? Many rooted devices display during boot a warning that they have been rooted. This is a problem that has been solved for more than a decade, but manufacturers pretend not to know the solution, because they are actively hostile to user freedom. > How do you trust that your hotel/AirBnB is not using root on _their_ TV to use its microphone to spy on you? Or actually r…

> Many rooted devices display during boot a warning that they have been rooted. Usually, this happens after a bootloader unlock because then verified boot is disabled. You can still have a rooted device and not break verified, resulting in no warning. See: jailbroken iPhones. I wouldn't say it's a solved problem. Just have to find an exploit that works with verified / attested boot. And device manufactures are gettin…

> I wouldn't say it's a solved problem. Just have to find an exploit that works with verified / attested boot

In general though on devices that are rootable, white-hat hackers are more inclined to responsibly disclose vulnerabilities instead of releasing them as a way to root said device. So having a rootable phone does increase security.

What doesn't increase security is when bank apps that are essential to daily life start detecting that a device has been rooted and force a lot of people into using closed source extensions to hide the fact that the devices is rooted.

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