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Programming is Art

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Re: Programming is Art

#71

Post by dust-jacket »

gps372 wrote: post #58

Most solutioning is art, given that you should have more than one way to reach the target state and target state itself is negotiable and non-concrete. When there are multiple options you are forced to analyze between them, sometimes you have a preferred option if the analysis has been done before. Your choices while solutioning will reflect your experience and how you think. In short, it definitely reflects 'you'. Y…

> Most solutioning is art, given that you should have more than one way to reach the target state and target state itself is negotiable and non-concrete. When there are multiple options you are forced to analyze between them, sometimes you have a preferred option if the analysis has been done before. Your choices while solutioning will reflect your experience and how you think. In short, it definitely reflects 'you'.

This is an very broad definition of 'art'. By this metric, I'm pretty sure me choosing what to have for lunch is art.

Re: Programming is Art

#72

Post by sunkeeh »

Art is "expression of an idea". Programming ISN'T art; the program/game/website could be, but programming is a CRAFT. The people he mentions are not artists, they are craftsmen.

Re: Programming is Art

#73

Post by greenbit »

bob1029 wrote: post #26

System design and architecture are the art. Programming is a set of techniques useful in realizing these compositions. I've never once in my life looked at a piece of code and thought "I am in the presence of god". However, the systems composed by code can often elicit this response.

Just as it's not immediately obvious when looking at a mile of assembly code what particular algorithm is represented, it's similarly difficult to figure out "what's going on" when presented with a pile of C++

For anything much more complicated than undergraduate level academic exercises, the right design media isn't the code itself, it's the modules and their interfaces and how they are interconnected. This sort of thing is much more effectively captured in diagrams than in linear constructs like code.

To put a finer point on it, the design of any non-trivial system is much more effectively communicated as diagrams. You wouldn't try to convey how such a system works to the new hire, by wading through hex dumps of the executables, or even assembly listings. I've been on projects and had 300K (bytes not sloc!) of C++ source dumped on me, though, and something like that is immune to all but the simplest tweaks until you suffer the pain of distilling a set of accurate diagrams of what's going on.

Re: Programming is Art

#74

Post by KurSix »

trashb wrote: post #46

I am (still) not a proponent for AI, however I hope AI might do to programming what the camera did to painting, and I hope that will be a good thing. What we understand as painting today is very different then what painting meant pre-camera. Now it is mostly a leisure activity and creative outlet. Where back in the day it was a serious occupation for capturing reality, and therefore creativity was taking second stage…

If software becomes dramatically cheaper to produce, that may just give investors even more software to invest in

Re: Programming is Art

#75

Post by dust-jacket »

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #53

I'd say this article is a stronger argument that "programming can be a hobby" than "programming is an art". Lots of people do lots of things for enjoyment without a salary, and we tend not to call all of those things an artform. There's lots of competing definitions of art, but I don't think the article has reasonably linked programming to any of them. Maybe there's a thin & stretched link to the concept of a starvin…

100%. Hobby is the word this article was looking for. And I don't think that's less meaningful, or that there's no way people can elevate their hobby to artform. But what the article describes is people with a hobby, not an art.

Re: Programming is Art

#76

Post by gps372 »

dust-jacket wrote: post #71
gps372 wrote: post #58

Most solutioning is art, given that you should have more than one way to reach the target state and target state itself is negotiable and non-concrete. When there are multiple options you are forced to analyze between them, sometimes you have a preferred option if the analysis has been done before. Your choices while solutioning will reflect your experience and how you think. In short, it definitely reflects 'you'. Y…

> Most solutioning is art, given that you should have more than one way to reach the target state and target state itself is negotiable and non-concrete. When there are multiple options you are forced to analyze between them, sometimes you have a preferred option if the analysis has been done before. Your choices while solutioning will reflect your experience and how you think. In short, it definitely reflects 'you'.…

I think art's definition would be even broader. Anything that involves your imagination, skill, ideas and analysis (applying yourself to the choices in front of you) would be art. Just googled and verified this, btw.

If choosing what to have for lunch is making you involve your imagination and analyse choices, then I guess it would fall in the category of art.

And due to restraints of time, budget and prior experiences, you might go for default choices anyways.

Re: Programming is Art

#77

Post by qlm »

red75prime wrote: post #35
noduerme wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know what a soul is, and you think it's something people just make up, then you are missing out on the experience of being human and you have a bigger problem than not being able to understand what art is.

Is it this fuzzy blob of ineffable experiences, aesthetics, qualia, self-reference, dualism, spirituality and other things? I don't need to reject all this to notice that its fuzziness makes it impossible to operationalize.

I think your response demonstrates rather than refutes their point.

Re: Programming is Art

#78

Post by theorchid »

dmitrijbelikov wrote: post #42

Art is a system. And programming is a system too. They are different systems. > If I learned PHP, I could build back-end applications. If I learned HTML and CSS, I could build websites. So, what have you been doing for the last 10 years and why i see only 2026 in your github?

> So, what have you been doing for the last 10 years and why i see only 2026 in your github?

I spent 10 years making money. I didn't see the point in spending time on open source. I never committed any code to open source until 2026. Because, for me, programming isn't art or a hobby.

Re: Programming is Art

#79

Post by CapsAdmin »

noduerme wrote: post #18
xeyownt wrote: post #11

Why are people mixing everything up? Since when code has a soul? AI can be just a tool. You use it the same way you use a keyboard, a computer, a pencil, etc. I'm pretty sure you can build art with it, much like using any tool. People are making art with ascii. You can do art with anything. But AI can also be much more than a tool, and why can't it have a soul? What's a soul anyway, except something that humans are m…

If you don't know what a soul is, and you think it's something people just make up, then you are missing out on the experience of being human and you have a bigger problem than not being able to understand what art is.

This feels very condescending and reminds me of how theists "feel sorry" for atheists because they don't believe in god.

Re: Programming is Art

#80

Post by tonyedgecombe »

trashb wrote: post #46

I am (still) not a proponent for AI, however I hope AI might do to programming what the camera did to painting, and I hope that will be a good thing. What we understand as painting today is very different then what painting meant pre-camera. Now it is mostly a leisure activity and creative outlet. Where back in the day it was a serious occupation for capturing reality, and therefore creativity was taking second stage…

I think that is quite likely but it is going to be a painful transition. Especially for the people who were only attracted to the profession for the money.
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