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Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

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Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#241

Post by numpad0 »

p-e-w wrote: post #132
Danox wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are right now, but if Japan can do it, and China can do it so can Europe and by the way, so can Australia, New Zealand and Canada they have the abilities they just have to have the will and if they haven’t learned anything recently, they better develop the will. Once again congratulations.

None of the countries you name is even close to SpaceX. Not even close. Their most ambitious prototypes are on par or behind the rocket SpaceX has been flying for a decade commercially.

The fact is that no one cares about reusability. Expendable rockets are cheap enough for governments and commercial entities alike, even for constellation launches. Starlink architecture only makes sense as a justification for the F9 launch cadence, and even then the actual satellites are managed as trains.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#242

Post by fsh »

neya wrote: post #238

> from European soil When someone emphasizes nationalism a bit too much that's usually only because they don't have enough technical merit to talk about.

Launching far off the equator makes it more difficult and is therefore a bigger technological achievement.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#243

Post by JohnTHaller »

ericmay wrote: post #93
JohnTHaller wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Russia's second violation of the Budapest Memorandum. We know Putin will simply ignore another treaty when he feels like. We also know the US under the current administration is "negotiating" in bad faith (via the president's son-in-law) and will do even less when the next treaty violation occurs.

No we don’t know that the current administration is negotiating in bad faith. That’s your opinion and one that doesn’t really reflect how the world of diplomacy and interactions between nation states work. Why would you waste time and money when any deal in which would be negotiated in bad faith requires Ukrainian participation? Second, yes the Budapest Memorandum was violated. Why didn’t the other parties do anythin…

Can you honestly say with a straight face that you believe Jared Kushner is in Moscow negotiating in good faith with Putin with respect to Ukraine? Especially given his lack of experience and multiple corruption accusations and investigations. And that Trump has illegally withheld Ukrainian assistance in the past and stopped it in the future.

Given that Trump's "peace plan" is essentially for Ukraine to give up even more territory and partially disarm - decreasing the size of their military and giving up long-range weapons... and there's no such provisions for Russia to do anything of the sort. The plan all but sets up Russia's next invasion of a weakened Ukraine.

The US didn't declare war on Russia. The EU isn't a party to the Budapest Memorandum. Ukraine, US, UK, and Russia are with China and France giving separate assurances.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#244

Post by ButlerianJihad »

fsh wrote: post #242
neya wrote: post #238

> from European soil When someone emphasizes nationalism a bit too much that's usually only because they don't have enough technical merit to talk about.

Launching far off the equator makes it more difficult and is therefore a bigger technological achievement.

The selection of launch site takes the orbital inclination into account.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit

The "Onward and Upward" cube sats were deployed to Sun-synchronous orbits, with a roughly polar inclination.

Similarly, launches from USSF Base Vandenberg take a southerly trajectory, so it can be used for orbits like that.

Rocket launches from continental Europe have been challenging because of the population centers, and the unpopularity of things exploding over their heads, and falling on their houses and businesses. USA and Russia have some quite ideal sites that avoid flying over populated areas.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#245

Post by MYEUHD »

scotty79 wrote: post #228
artisinal wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's legally true, but I think it misses the distinction between formal political status and the legacy of colonialism. French Guiana is an overseas department of France, and its residents have French citizenship and constitutional rights. But that doesn't mean the historical relationship was equivalent to mainland France, or that the effects of that history disappeared when the legal status changed. The same point…

How does it compare to Alaska? Wasn't it purchased as a colony from russians to exploit Alaskan gold with complete disreagrd for opinion of the native population?

Alaska is a colony is well, and so is the rest of North America.

We don't think of the US and Canada as colonies because the vast majority of the native population was genocided.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#246

Post by abenga »

rootusrootus wrote: post #197
noir_lord wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You folks over the pond really do think we think about you that much don’t you, prior to Trump I didn’t give much of a shit what the US did (except when you were destabilising the Middle East but I guess everyone needs a hobby), was literally none of my business and I didn’t have to live there (fortunately). Now we have to pay attention because what you always where in part is in full control and it’s essentially imp…

> You folks over the pond really do think we think about you that much don’t you Yes? You talk about us waaaaay more than we talk about you. And not just since Trump.

You talk about it as if it's little cliques of students talking about each other in a cafeteria. It's not. It's a giant economy with a giant military that affects everyone's wellbeing.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#247

Post by anonymars »

mag7269 wrote: post #213
zzzeek wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh we (the non idiots here) know full well what we lost. If Europe has a larger and more substantial science / technology community, that will just mean more trips/job offers in EU for me, so go Europe !

As an American, I welcome a multi-polar world where Europe pulls its weight when it comes to science, technology and engineering! More so in geopolitical matters. It’s always been very draining for one empire or nation to maintain world peace. The 19th century was Pax Britannica, the 20th, after WW2, was Pax Americana, we can now hope that Pax AmEuropana can offer a counter to the crazy rapid growth of Asia and also…

What rewards do you think the US is going to gain from this path it has begun to travel? Do you think it was all some noble charity case?

The UK is likely to be an illustrative example, so it's apt you mentioned it

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#248

Post by kspacewalk2 »

petcat wrote: post #176
noir_lord wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in the same way that as a home owner I’d be “obsessed” with my neighbour if he was showing a predilection towards arson. I’d love to be able to go a day without having to see whatever the latest stupidity we’ll have to deal with the fallout from is, I really would.

This obsession started decades ago. Long before any recent politics. It's only gotten deeper and more intense recently.

In fact, until Trump 2 they rarely thought about you at all.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#249

Post by bpodgursky »

Danox wrote: post #123
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #103

A good historical nugget is that the Americans got a huge leg up in the space race by importing the Germans who worked on the V-2 program. Germans killed Soviets by the millions. If you were a German of value (like a rocket scientist) you were eager to surrender to the Americans before the Soviets could get their hands on you. If you were the Americans, you distrusted the Soviets already, so it was a win-win. https:/…

They got a leg up and still the Russians with Sputnik got into space first, on top of splitting Korea and winning in Vietnam and having the nuclear bomb fall into their lap and to top it off they appear to have the Manchurian candidate in the White House.

The Russians conscripted more German rocket scientists than the Americans got through Operation Paperclip, both programs were bootstrapped with German expertise. Americans got ~1,600, Russians more like 6,000.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#250

Post by sinuhe69 »

neya wrote: post #238

> from European soil When someone emphasizes nationalism a bit too much that's usually only because they don't have enough technical merit to talk about.

No. It’s simply about accessibility and sovereignty. Even though the ESA can launch from French Guiana, the space port is an ocean-away from Europe! How much do you think that fact will affect the cost and the launch cadence for Europe?

Now they prove they can launch directly from Norway with their own production from Munich and elsewhere and that has immense potential for the future: much higher cadence, significant lower cost and always-on accessibility.

The only way, Europe can have a Starlink similar network is to launch from their own soil and reuse the first stage. Also from the perspective of security, launching spy and other military satellites from European soil is the only practical possibility in this political climate.

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