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Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

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Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#81

Post by Eupolemos »

rexskimmer wrote: post #73
hypfer wrote: post #22

This is a huge success, but it I think also tells us that the EU is further decoupling itself from the US. Slowly but steadily. Which is obviously the right thing to do, but it's interesting that it's not just a hypothetical anymore.

They started developing this rocket in the late 2010s, way before the current US craziness (or the current level of craziness anyway). Independent access to space is always desirable for countries that can muster the resources, but this is just one of many companies that appeared back then as a response to SpaceX's initial success.

Eh, you can split us Europeans up into two camps; those who do not want to see the problem and those who couldn't look away.

The second camp saw the craziness when the later Bush was elected a second time.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#82

Post by consumer451 »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #13

Isar Aerospace launch into orbit [video] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss1DUqLjecc ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49580325 )

Thanks for that video. Super cool that they got pro streamers NSF involved.

Really interesting that they will be launching from Canada as well.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#83

Post by ericmay »

ben_w wrote: post #80
ericmay wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't the US's decision to make, certainly not without having talked to Ukraine. Didn’t suggest it was, but at the end of the day it’s the US who is the partner at the table who can make the biggest difference and bringing Ukraine in to the room with Russia will just result in conflict and no hope of figuring things out diplomatically. Of course any deal that the US attempted to broker would have to be agreed t…

> Didn’t suggest it was, but at the end of the day it’s the US who is the partner at the table who can make the biggest difference and bringing Ukraine in to the room with Russia will just result in conflict and no hope of figuring things out diplomatically. How? The US no longer supplies military aid to Ukraine. They're not a partner at all , let alone the one "who can make the biggest difference". > Ok then we shou…

> How? The US no longer supplies military aid to Ukraine. They're not a partner at all, let alone the one "who can make the biggest difference".

At a minimum the US still provides intelligence to Ukraine and maintains (and has increased) sanctions on Russia. Actions against both Venezuela and Iran negatively affected Russian shadow fleet operations which were funneling money to Russia to continue its war. Iran provides military support by selling drones, at a minimum. The US also maintains a significant military in presence to defer Russia from opening new fronts. In the last couple of weeks the director of the CIA met with Russian counterparts in an attempt, at least as alleged, to provide information to Russia to get them to come to the negotiating table. Your suggestion that the US isn’t a partner is your opinion but is not reflect in reality.

> That's not even a coherent argument.

Sure it is

> Legally, or de-facto?

Either. Don’t mistake my comments for supporting Donald Trump. I didn’t vote for him and think he belongs in jail over Jan 6 at a minimum. But I’m also not going to tolerate these asinine “what if France nuked my hometown” comments nor other similar sensationalized rhetoric.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#84

Post by mrtksn »

blini-kot wrote: post #2

Plesetsk is also european soil.

Europe is a vibe based concept, a place can be European or not depending on the vibes. Even the east west central etc. are completely vibe based. Portugal for example is Eastern European country, meanwhile Romania is central according to some textbooks.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#85

Post by sbuttgereit »

samrus wrote: post #59
manlymuppet wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think America is so far gone. We have issues sure, but I for one still believe that we can be better. Trump be damned, Europe and America are stronger when they work together.

Americans have to hope that the US will move past trumo and not repeat that mistake, but for europeans its most prudent to prepare for a world where such a corrupt wannabe distator doesnt have have that much leverage over them. The US and europe would be stronger together if the US acted in good faith. Absent that, decoupling is the right choice

Or maybe Europe just thinks if you can't beat 'em, join 'em:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/05/world/europe/germany-afd-...

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#86

Post by JohnTHaller »

ericmay wrote: post #76
JohnTHaller wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's word has been ironclad each time it's been given to Ukraine previously. It surely would be the same this time.

So you don’t think the two sides should even try to find a diplomatic solution?

This is Russia's second violation of the Budapest Memorandum. We know Putin will simply ignore another treaty when he feels like. We also know the US under the current administration is "negotiating" in bad faith (via the president's son-in-law) and will do even less when the next treaty violation occurs.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#87

Post by contingencies »

wand3r wrote: post #78
tekla wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it grew up thanks to government assistance Please give an example of gov assistance that was not a open contract to every private launch company in the US

Yeah, I really hate this revisionism of Elon as an extremely wealthy apartheid emerald mine heir who was a dumb guy who happened to get lucky at paypal and then stole all his money from the government while operating a car and rocket company. There is plenty to criticize about him, but SpaceX dramatically decreased cost to orbit which had reliance on Russian technology at the time.

Musk was raised affluent in apartheid-era South Africa, his father had some connection to Zambian emerald trading/mining, and Musk's companies have benefited enormously from public contracts and policy. He's not stupid.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#88

Post by Tuna-Fish »

hn_submit wrote: post #74
hypfer wrote: post #22

This is a huge success, but it I think also tells us that the EU is further decoupling itself from the US. Slowly but steadily. Which is obviously the right thing to do, but it's interesting that it's not just a hypothetical anymore.

Multiple European nations gaining their own independent launch capabilities will merely result in the sinking of ESA and ArianeSpace. Look forward to lots of infighting in the near future.

ESA is going to remain on the mission/payload side. ArianeSpace makes sense as a launch services provider handling everything that's not the rocket. ArianeGroup (the company that actually builds the rockets) will just become the French rocket company that will end up competing with the Italian and German ones.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#89

Post by artisinal »

tristanj wrote: post #29
artisinal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really comes in handy to still have a couple of colonies near the equator. It's also better to have the massive amounts of emissions far away from your own population.

French Guiana is not a colony, it is a region of France. People who live there have the same constitutional rights as anyone living in mainland France. It has the same status in France as Alaska does in the US.

That's legally true, but I think it misses the distinction between formal political status and the legacy of colonialism. French Guiana is an overseas department of France, and its residents have French citizenship and constitutional rights. But that doesn't mean the historical relationship was equivalent to mainland France, or that the effects of that history disappeared when the legal status changed.

The same point applies elsewhere: Guinea became independent from French colonial rule in 1958, but independence didn't magically erase the economic structures, institutions, and inequalities inherited from colonialism. Today, a large share of Guinea's population still lives in poverty despite the country's enormous natural-resource wealth.

So "it's not a colony" is correct as a matter of constitutional law. But using that fact to imply that colonial history is irrelevant to present-day economic and social conditions is a much stronger claim, and one that's harder to defend.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#90

Post by clickety_clack »

hypfer wrote: post #22

This is a huge success, but it I think also tells us that the EU is further decoupling itself from the US. Slowly but steadily. Which is obviously the right thing to do, but it's interesting that it's not just a hypothetical anymore.

Coupled or uncoupled, an equal relationship between the US and the EU is much healthier. Europe should have an economy, military and industrial capacity similar to the US.
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