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Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

nytimes.com

181–190 of 191 posts

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 5 years I don't think you're going to be able to get away from LLMs if you care about correctness Okay. Let’s revisit this in five years. In the meantime, let’s not experiment on our kids.

I'm not talking about future capabilities, I'm saying it will cease to be arguable within 5 years. We can't just bury our heads in the sand. Kids are going to need to engage with this directly, and it cannot wait until after they graduate high school. I'm not saying give up doing things by hand, but also everyone needs to learn to work with AI to do advanced math. It's not one or the other, it has to be both.

> I'm not saying give up doing things by hand, but also everyone needs to learn to work with AI to do advanced math.

I started secondary school (British closest equivalent to highschool) in autumn 1995. One of the teachers opined that they liked Apple's computers "but no point teaching them because they'd be bankrupt soon". Took a while for the school to replace the RISC OS machines with Windows.

By 2000, when I started my A-levels (UK has two years between secondary school and university for this qualification), Windows and MacOS had changed so much as to make any lessons from the start of secondary school, on RISC OS, irrelevant.

Five years later, 2005/06, I noticed while using my laptop to record my final year of university lectures (I was on a four year course), that most of us in the lecture hall had gone from pen and paper in the first year to laptops in the final year.

Five more, 2010, smartphones had no mice, and the on-screen keyboards were significantly different from physical keyboards. Multitasking was a very different experience compared to a desktop or laptop OS. Social media was replacing "never tell anyone on the internet your real name" with "tell everyone on the internet even the most banal details about your life".

Five more, 2015, and smartphones and apps were shifting from exceptions to expectations.

Five more, 2020, we're walking into rooms and telling the always-listening microphone to adjust the lights or play some music, and using the now-free video calls we'd come to expect as a minimum requirement of any chat service to get us through the isolation of the pandemic.

Two years later, 2022, people started cheating on their homework with an AI which knew more than they did, even despite how bad early AI was at maths in particular.

Four years later, 2026, the AI isn't just helping kids cheat, it is solving (a limited subset of) previously unsolved maths problems at research level.

Even last year, 2025, when it was "merely" doing well on Olympiad-type challenges, I didn't even understand the questions. My A-levels included maths and further maths, which isn't a boast because I didn't follow this up with a maths degree, but it should give a sense of how much further ahead of mandatory schooling AI already was even last year.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#182

Mamdani should investigate why NYC spends almost twice as much per student as the city of Zurich, Switzerland (which itself spends an enormous amount on education) but lags behind the U.S. average in reading and math test scores: https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2025/01/29/naep-scores-sho...

NYC has approximately several million more students than the city of Zurich. And several million more immigrants than the entire country of Switzerland.

PER CAPITA, come on now

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about future capabilities, I'm saying it will cease to be arguable within 5 years. We can't just bury our heads in the sand. Kids are going to need to engage with this directly, and it cannot wait until after they graduate high school. I'm not saying give up doing things by hand, but also everyone needs to learn to work with AI to do advanced math. It's not one or the other, it has to be both.

>I'm not talking about future capabilities, I'm saying it will cease to be arguable within 5 years So... talking about future capabilities. >Kids are going to need to engage with this directly Just to get this straight: are you the kind of person to give your 1st grader a calculator and say "just use this. you won't ever have to add numbers by hand anyway"? So much metaphors of AI go around calculators, but this is a…

> Just to get this straight: are you the kind of person to give your 1st grader a calculator

I think banning smartphone/computer use before 3rd grade in the classroom sounds like a good idea.

Math is incredibly useful. I think the biggest problem with math is that people don't understand how to apply it, it's not that applications are hard to find. AI actually explains how to apply it very directly. I can never remember how to calculate compound interest, an AI can do it instantly.

Mamdani's banning teachers from using AI to grade assignments.

> So... talking about future capabilities.

No, I'm talking about current capabilities. The studies that prove that current AI is better at grading assignments than humans will take at least a year, if not several.

The question is if we change what assignments teachers give, or if we accept that grading is a task best done by computers. If we change the assignments that teachers give, I don't know what that looks like. Regardless, there's going to be a lot of experimentation going on. Banning AI doesn't help.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#184
Good. Classrooms need very little: good teachers, books, chalkboards, and pencil/paper. That's it.

IMO the _material_ being taught is secondary; what truly matters is teaching kids to think, to be bored, to engage with something they don't love but do a good job anyway, to find things they _do_ love that might exist on the other side of some amount of difficulty. They need to be taught how to think, and to have some grit.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#185
post #145

Even if you're pro-AI, there's a reason calculators are banned from math classes until a certain point. It seems like a no-brainer to have people learn on hammers before moving them to nailguns. I can't help but think of this Chesterton Quote: "It is, on the contrary, a thing analogous to writing one's own love-letters or blowing one's own nose. These things we want a man to do for himself, even if he does them badly…

> It seems like a no-brainer to have people learn on hammers When I was young I attended a karate dojo. One interaction that always stayed with me was when someone asked why the guy with a black belt could do the katas differently. The sensei answered that when learning, your task is to learn to do the katas perfectly. As a black belt, you have amply demonstrated that, so now your task is to be creative and build on…

thats an awesome example

giving ai to children without limits is like giving them leg-braces or wheelchairs; they'll get used to it and never learn to walk or run by themselves much less karate... they'll be cripples from the start.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs have been better than many teachers I've had in my life. To no fault of the teachers, it's hard to compete with something that has understanding of every subject, is hooked up to the internet, and is given 1:1 time with the person learning at any time of the day, answering promptly.

LLMs are also more flattering

your absolutely right!

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#187
post #45

There's a far deeper and longer standing issue here and that's rent-seeking. We know what works in education. It's phonics and direct insturction, basically. But nobody gets rich that way so you end up buying into a worse system through two steps: 1. Education PhDs need to justify their existence. They do by reineventing what works. This is basically how we came up with sight words to replace phonics, which is largel…

  > But nobody gets rich that way so you end up buying into a worse system
software development is like this too; you can do fine without all the fancy ceremonies and tools as long as you get the basics right, but rent-seeking and consultants run rampant to everyones detriment

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#188

A famous CS teacher from NJU in China said something like this: If you do not use AI, you should leave the school now.

at some point we need to stop caring what china is doing and start doing what is needed for ourselves... this "china is doing x so we have to do y" china derangement is ruining everything.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#189
If Chinese kids are taught how to use AI from an early age, while American kids have to wait until they are in university, which ones are going to be make economically competitive when they become adults?

I think we already know the answer to this question, I’m not sure what America plans to do about it, or maybe just fade away into irrelevance?

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC has approximately several million more students than the city of Zurich. And several million more immigrants than the entire country of Switzerland.

PER CAPITA, come on now

That's irrelevant. Scale matters when you're discussing costs because costs increase nonlinearly.
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