Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools • Hacker News Board

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#121

Post by BobaFloutist » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 1:05 AM UTC

manquer wrote: post #85

legitster wrote: post #26

Even if you're pro-AI, there's a reason calculators are banned from math classes until a certain point. It seems like a no-brainer to have people learn on hammers before moving them to nailguns. I can't help but think of this Chesterton Quote: "It is, on the contrary, a thing analogous to writing one's own love-letters or blowing one's own nose. These things we want a man to do for himself, even if he does them badly…

> calculators are banned from math classes Not all math classes yes, if your are learning basic arithmetic yes calculators should not be allowed, but if am learning say applied statistics I would be wasting time adding numbers by hand and not learning what I am actually supposed to be taking the course for. A tool is just a tool[1]. Even when it was not allowed, schools would still teach you how to use a calculator c…

The comment you're responding to doesn't appear to have been edited, so you might benefit from rereading the sentence you quoted a snippet from.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#122

Post by rayiner » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 1:08 AM UTC

Mamdani should investigate why NYC spends almost twice as much per student as the city of Zurich, Switzerland (which itself spends an enormous amount on education) but lags behind the U.S. average in reading and math test scores: https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2025/01/29/naep-scores-sho...

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#123

Post by preg_match » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 1:23 AM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #65

Zetaphor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that a human teacher is equivalent to an LLM is derogatory to the teachers and exaggerating the capabilities of the LLM. I say this as someone who uses these things daily in my work and personal life. Let's not murky the waters with complete falsehoods

LLMs have been better than many teachers I've had in my life. To no fault of the teachers, it's hard to compete with something that has understanding of every subject, is hooked up to the internet, and is given 1:1 time with the person learning at any time of the day, answering promptly.

LLMs are very good at convincing people they are learning, because they give answers quickly and fairly accurately. But that makes them bad teachers, not better teachers. The fact that LLMs are good problem solvers is to their detriment when it comes to teaching. We don't want to solve problems in this domain, we want to slowly trickle information and build practice so students can solve problems.

I think people conflate productivity for learning. LLMs can greatly help with productivity. But... so can hiring an employee. Well, what have you learned? Nothing, you outsourced 90% of it. You decidedly learned less than if you were less productive and did it yourself.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#124

Post by skeptic_ai » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 1:33 AM UTC

legitster wrote: post #26

Even if you're pro-AI, there's a reason calculators are banned from math classes until a certain point. It seems like a no-brainer to have people learn on hammers before moving them to nailguns. I can't help but think of this Chesterton Quote: "It is, on the contrary, a thing analogous to writing one's own love-letters or blowing one's own nose. These things we want a man to do for himself, even if he does them badly…

So why I Dont learn how semiconductors work before I do JavaScript? Or assembly code? I can cheat straight to JavaScript

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#125

Post by mango7283 » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 1:57 AM UTC

An apt analogy to me was the one I read that using AI to write is like using a forklift to lift weights at the gym - the point isn't that the weights need to be moved, it's to exercise your body.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#126

Post by consumer451 » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 2:36 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #122

Mamdani should investigate why NYC spends almost twice as much per student as the city of Zurich, Switzerland (which itself spends an enormous amount on education) but lags behind the U.S. average in reading and math test scores: https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2025/01/29/naep-scores-sho...

Isn't Zurich far richer per-capita than NYC? I would think there is more than just what happens in a school that dictates the testing outcomes.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#127

Post by rayiner » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 2:43 AM UTC

consumer451 wrote: post #126

rayiner wrote: post #122

Mamdani should investigate why NYC spends almost twice as much per student as the city of Zurich, Switzerland (which itself spends an enormous amount on education) but lags behind the U.S. average in reading and math test scores: https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2025/01/29/naep-scores-sho...

Isn't Zurich far richer per-capita than NYC? I would think there is more than just what happens in a school that dictates the testing outcomes.

NYC median income is about $80,000, while Zurich is $95,000. But my test-score comparison is between NYC and the U.S. national average. I'm just using Zurich as a data point for how much a rich, expensive non-U.S. city spends on education.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#128

Post by ytoawwhra92 » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 3:09 AM UTC

legitster wrote: post #26

Even if you're pro-AI, there's a reason calculators are banned from math classes until a certain point. It seems like a no-brainer to have people learn on hammers before moving them to nailguns. I can't help but think of this Chesterton Quote: "It is, on the contrary, a thing analogous to writing one's own love-letters or blowing one's own nose. These things we want a man to do for himself, even if he does them badly…

> there's a reason calculators are banned from math classes until a certain point

Yeah, a bad reason.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-10/are-calculators-affec...

> In a 1997 review of the extent to which calculators were being used in schools, numerous studies were examined that indicated the use of calculators at primary levels had no detrimental effects on students' arithmetic abilities.

> Unfortunately, the research indicated that calculators were still being used for trivial things like checking answers and were making little difference in mathematics education.

> Although teachers indicated their support for the use of calculators across all levels of primary school, there was little evidence that these ideas were being taken up and implemented.

> Parental disapproval of the use of calculators was cited as a possible cause of the limited take-up.

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#129

Post by voxl » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 3:26 AM UTC

Sebguer wrote: post #60

voxl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you'd rather give money to the company that stole the copyrighted material of experts and academics instead of giving them money? Sure some textbooks are corporate greed schemes themselves, but many others are just the work of a group of professors

they literally said that they think Mamdani is doing the right thing and that they understand they're hindering their education by using AI the way they are, did you even read the comment before making your response?

Missing information is different from paying the person who steals information instead of paying the person that produces it. Did you bother to think critically before you replied, or is an AI doing all your thinking as well?

Re: Mamdani bans AI in NYC schools

#130

Post by shoopadoop » Thu, Sep 03, 2026, 3:49 AM UTC

summermusic wrote: post #12

I can see the 2040 study already: “Schoolchildren who did not use AI in primary school show higher outcomes”

https://fortune.com/2026/07/21/gen-z-cheating-homework-schoo...

Higher homework scores, but _substantially_ worse test results.

About what you'd expect, right? Friction is important for learning. Make the process too smooth and it slides right off the brain.