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Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

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311–320 of 346 posts

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how Republicans caused the ineligible votes in New Jersey, please.

> Explain how Republicans caused the ineligible votes in New Jersey, please. I never asserted that they did. Are you arguing with me or with a straw man?

You wrote: “They ( problems in elections ) do exist. What's interesting is that those are problems created by the same people who are currently trying to disenfranchise people…”

Under discussion was the New Jersey ineligible voter problem, to which you responded with problems in perceived over zealous voter restrictions.

Clearly, not all the problems are caused by Republicans. There’s room for examination and correction in more than one place.

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#312
post #134

Regardless what anyone thinks about the security of voting in the US. I'd hope that they could see how massively upending multiple states' voting systems 2 months before the midterms is a really bad idea. Even with the best intentions, implementing such a sweeping untested change so rapidly is a horrible idea. (No, I don't support it regardless, but surely even if you do you could recognize that the timeframe is way…

You're giving them too much credit. There is zero critical thinking happening.

I disagree. A lot of thinking went into this. It's not a dumb idea -- it's a very smart (in a very anti-democracy) way to try to subvert the midterms

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#313
OT: I solve the election puzzle:

Have anonymized, legally binding election programs. The voter gets two randomly selected programs. Basically bubble sort but with up and down vote counters.

You spend 30 minutes in the boot before voting and get paid for your time.

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#314

I'm wondering how easy the USPS is to route around. In California's last election, there were 2,758 drop-box locations and 3,546 polling locations. In cities, these are often within walking distance. In rural areas, they might not be so convenient. So it seems like, at least for returning ballots, any USPS snafus would affect rural voters (which skew Republican) more than urban? Delivering is another question. I wond…

Use ballot boxes -- those don't go through the USPS

Requires a bit more work for people but at least where I live there are many places you can drop off your ballot, including most public libraries.

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump supporters used to speak up on this site. Surely they still exist but all I hear is crickets They are here. But their contributions are, let's say, not motivated by fact-based reasoning. Not surprising: it's very hard to defend what's going on in this country right now. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49545694 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49545156

>But their contributions are, let's say, not motivated by fact-based reasoning. Neither are yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49546137

How does that contradict my point? 10 percent of Americans do not have acceptable ID and would be disenfranchised by Republican voter ID laws. Even free ID doesn't make the operation frictionless, as you still have to provide a birth cert or citizenship doc.

Don't tell me I'm "unfactual" while presenting this kind of weak sauce non sequitur.

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Explain how Republicans caused the ineligible votes in New Jersey, please. I never asserted that they did. Are you arguing with me or with a straw man?

You wrote: “They ( problems in elections ) do exist. What's interesting is that those are problems created by the same people who are currently trying to disenfranchise people…” Under discussion was the New Jersey ineligible voter problem, to which you responded with problems in perceived over zealous voter restrictions. Clearly, not all the problems are caused by Republicans. There’s room for examination and correct…

You are (intentionally) disregarding the question of intent. The NJ issue was a software bug. It was found and fixed. No amount of big government oversight will prevent bugs, and in fact it may increase them.

In contrast, the disenfranchisement in Georgia, Tennessee, and now proposed through the USPS,is fully intentional. Republican don't want legal voters to vote.

The situation is not at all comparable.

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#317
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the crazy thing about the US. Our postal service is, for some reason, not funded by taxpayer dollars, but also not allowed to run a profit, they are not allowed to change prices without congressional approval, and they must fund their pension for 75 years - well beyond any requirement anyone else in the US faces, to include both federal agencies and private orgs. If they didn't have that last requirement, they…

No tax funding, no profit and price controls are normal for a state owned company. In other countries the postal service is not expected to pay for itself all the way but subsidies are limited by law. The prices are supposed to be lower than market as a public service.

These aren’t state-owned companies, they’re federal services. It’s also, as stated, not how it works for any other org or business in the US. Maybe everyone else in the world has some kind of problem similar to this, but it appears to at least be a somewhat unique situation in the US.

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am asserting that errors happened. Errors are not fraud. The current push by the Trump administration is (allegedly) about fraud. > The American public overwhelmingly wants voter ID, as other countries have, but this is a topic not entertained by one side of the political aisle. It's entertained if you can do it fairly. "Fairly" means everyone gets an ID automatically. Why do Republicans oppose given legal voters…

I don’t oppose that. What makes you think all Republicans would? I want every single voter to have access to their vote, and I want strict proof that every vote cast was the knowledgeable will of that voter ( and only that voter. I’m thinking of ballot dumps at collection boxes here. ) The distinction between fraud and error doesn’t matter to me. The system has problems, ineligible voters have been casting votes. Nob…

> I don’t oppose that. What makes you think all Republicans would?

Because your elected GOP representatives consistently vote against it, when universally available ID is presented by Democrats as a condition for voter ID laws. Do you have a plausible explanation for why GOP Congressmen would reject that proposal? I sure do.

> Nobody should oppose efforts to fix it.

First you have to prove that there is a problem to fix. Fraud, as we've covered, has never been shown to be a significant issue, and software bugs, as I noted, are not cured by invasive and illegal USPS tactics. So what in your view could possibly be fixed by this latest move?

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am asserting that errors happened. Errors are not fraud. The current push by the Trump administration is (allegedly) about fraud. > The American public overwhelmingly wants voter ID, as other countries have, but this is a topic not entertained by one side of the political aisle. It's entertained if you can do it fairly. "Fairly" means everyone gets an ID automatically. Why do Republicans oppose given legal voters…

I don’t oppose that. What makes you think all Republicans would? I want every single voter to have access to their vote, and I want strict proof that every vote cast was the knowledgeable will of that voter ( and only that voter. I’m thinking of ballot dumps at collection boxes here. ) The distinction between fraud and error doesn’t matter to me. The system has problems, ineligible voters have been casting votes. Nob…

> What makes you think all Republicans would?

It doesn't matter when the guy leading the charge is an actual insurrectionist, who was caught trying to twist the arm of Georgia's governor to throw the election for him. What's even the point of voting if the President is just going to call up the governor and threaten to investigate him if he doesn't get his way? The people pushing this have a massive credibility problem and it's never going to go anywhere until more credible people, like yourself, are writing the bills and making the case you're making here from the Senate floor.

> The distinction between fraud and error doesn’t matter to me. The system has problems, ineligible voters have been casting votes. Nobody should oppose efforts to fix it.

There's a huge actual distinction between the two in that you can't fix all errors, nor can you prosecute errors (not accounting for negligence). Moreover, every system is going to have some amount of fraud; it's impossible to reduce fraud to zero without increasing costs to infinity. So at some level you have to make a choice between a flawed system and a system that's intractable.

Here's more recent proof that the system is working as intended:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/potential-non-citiz...

  The audit estimated that no more than 0.1% of voter registration records would have allowed someone to vote despite an unverified identity, invalid address, or citizenship-related issue.
So that's what we've talking about really, driving a 0.1% down to some other smaller infinitesimal number which cannot be 0, because even the perfect system would be subject to human errors.

Re: Whistleblower warns Postal Service mail ballot system has catastrophic problems

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you lying about what the other person said? They said "no meaningful fraud" as in there's not an amount of fraud that can actually change the results.

>Why are you lying about what the other person said? Why do you see the truth as a lie? >They said "no meaningful fraud" as in there's not an amount of fraud that can actually change the results. Except there is plenty of evidence across the world for over twenty years of "meaningful fraud that could change election results" happening. Heck, it actually goes all the way back to the Civil War and while history records…

>Why do you see the truth as a lie?

I don't. Read what I said again. You were lying about what the other person said, i.e. attacking a strawman.

>Except there is plenty of evidence across the world for over twenty years of "meaningful fraud that could change election results" happening.

No there isn't, not in the US. Substantiate your claim.

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