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FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

krebsonsecurity.com

261–270 of 313 posts

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government . They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later).

I've found that the speed of the DMV seems to vary wildly by state, and possibly even city and location, based on anecdotes. Earlier this year, my license was expiring and I decided to get a Real ID. I was able to create an appointment on the Oregon DMV website. It was set for 10 AM. I got there at 9:50 and checked in. My name was called up at only a couple minutes after my appointment time. I gave my documents and p…

It can also depend on where you are within the state.

When I lived in Colorado the smart move in Denver was to start lining up about an hour before the DMV opened (for driver licenses, car registration never had much of a line). Out in the mountains, I was able to just walk in just about anytime. The longest wait I had in the small mountain town I lived in was when the one lady working there was doing a driving test, and I had to wait 10 minutes for her to get back.

Living in Washington, they allow private businesses to register vehicles, so transferring a car was normally a 5 minute job. Never did bother to switch my DL, so can't comment on that.

Now I'm up in BC where vehicle and driver licensing is handled by the state owned insurance monopoly. Any agent, private or public, can register your car. You can get the licensing done at public insurance offices, or at provincial service centres that handle all sorts of business by appointment or walk in. It all works pretty well.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#262
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government . They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later).

> They're run extremely efficiently for the government. They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later). The government is efficient without qualification. People just like to complain and Reagan was charismatic so we’re cursed with this government inefficiency meme. We’re programmed to repeat it even when providing counter examples. The overwhelming majority of…

People also confuse that government programs have to prioritize many things over and above cost in ways that businesses don't.

The government has to (and should have to) provide the same service to everyone, everywhere. Businesses would never bother putting a DMV office in a small remote county because of cost, even if it was unfair and inconvenient to people living there. Government does do that, and it doesn't look great on a balance sheet.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is... being opposed to a national ID card scheme is bipartisan in the US [1]. The Republicans go as far as to yap about "mark of the beast", the Democrats and the ACLU fear them being used as part of a surveillance state. [1] https://www.nyclu.org/commentary/letter-beware-mark-beast-wa...

Which is insane. The federal government already knows who we are, via SSN, tax returns, and whatever else. The state already knows via tax returns, driver's license, and whatever else. If we, collectively, don't want a true national ID, then federal regulations on state-issued IDs should be available (something roughly akin to ReadID, but with the ability to use the ID as a proof of age or other attribute as needed).…

> […] ability to use the ID as a proof of age or other attribute as needed

What attributes should require proof? Where do you draw the line?

Age?

Gender?

Race?

Religion?

Political party?

Citizenship?

> We'll get there eventually, but not before we try everything else first.

We got here by trying everything else first.

The “good old days” are now. Thousands of years of progress and blood delivered our liberal societies. Don’t give it up so easily.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would probably be considered “disenfranchising” because people would have a hard time keeping track of their public key and the process to recover it would involve having to take off work, transportation, etc.

it would likely be built into the ID, like a PIV/CAC card. I thought about this same thing many years ago, the state DMV's could be in a PKI web of trust with a federal signer/issuer/cross-signer above them. Proving your identity online would mean inserting your ID into your computer so it could be crypto-graphically validated. Yes there are genuine privacy and other concerns, but we'll probably end up there anyway a…

This is essentially how my Estonian ID card works. The ID card is inserted into a USB smartcard reader and grants access to identity verification an thus access to services.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before my time, but I believe SSN was and probably still is controversial in my circle. I definitely recall rumblings about it even 30 years ago. But while cash is printed (physical currency): Not having an SSN becomes a major impediment but not impossible to make transactions and survive. Our migrant workers—who are basically carrying white collar workers like me—are proof of this.

Isn't all of those cases then also proof that if the SSN was a government ID instead, all of those things would have been the same? The ID wouldn't "impossible to make transactions and survive", just an impediment, just like not having a SSN is today. Point is, the US already basically have a de facto "ID card", they just don't call it as such (yet?), so claiming somehow correctly labeling this thing would make thing…

You can't really identify someone by their SSN. My card is literally just a piece of cardstock paper with a name and number, and no one has ever asked to see it. There is no photo. There is no security.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#266
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ID scans in the article weren't submitted by people from their phones. They include IR and UV scans, too. The database might contain multiple sources but at least the big one appears to have a lot of IDs from physical locations where you hand your ID over the counter to someone to scan.

I'm now very curious how does a UV/IR scan of an ID card looks like!

There's 153mm available to see if you're interested.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would likely be built into the ID, like a PIV/CAC card. I thought about this same thing many years ago, the state DMV's could be in a PKI web of trust with a federal signer/issuer/cross-signer above them. Proving your identity online would mean inserting your ID into your computer so it could be crypto-graphically validated. Yes there are genuine privacy and other concerns, but we'll probably end up there anyway a…

This is essentially how my Estonian ID card works. The ID card is inserted into a USB smartcard reader and grants access to identity verification an thus access to services.

But the American public is petrified of systems like that because of the leftovers of frontier settler culture and fear of communism. They're apparently far more comfortable with the similar but worse systems being set up by corporations.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#268
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had two active Clear subscriptions at the same time. How did an identity verification company not know both accounts were the same person? They were both using the same credit card! What does an "identity verification" company even do?

> What does an "identity verification" company even do? Handles the multitude of ID document standards around the world while providing a simple Boolean flag to websites that are required to check if you're an adult.

Then inexplicably keeps the data and gets hacked in the most obvious way possible.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have plenty of naturalized immigrants with no traceable documentation of their birth because they grew up in the middle of nowhere. Somehow this wasn't a problem for them, while whites-only water fountains still live rent-free in your mind. Following your logic, no problem is solvable until you have eliminated all potential issues and outliers. No startups would ever get off the ground with that attitude.

I'm all for solving problems, but I am not for committing a major disenfranchisement under cover of solving a non-problem. People who want to just ram through voter ID laws without solving the problem of undocumented citizens can't be treated as serious members of society.

Maybe you're not helping to solve this problem and you're just making it worse by overstating the problem and causing others to argue over whether there is even a problem?

> People who want to just ram through voter ID laws without solving the problem of undocumented citizens can't be treated as serious members of society.

Maybe we want to be more like Europe with IDs from birth and to use them for all government activities.

Who are you to be the arbiter of who is a serious member of society?

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