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FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

krebsonsecurity.com

191–200 of 313 posts

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#191

I know some modern, normal countries have done variations of this but the US missed a golden opportunity to give everyone an RSA keypair when they were coerced into signing up for an Enhanced/REAL ID. Instead of scanning, taking photos of or holding licences up to webcams (I was asked to do this recently) you provide your public key or, better, a signed message containing the name, website or other identifier which g…

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Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#192
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

153 million puts them at roughly 1/2 of all Americans. Naturally these "identity verification" companies are a joke that have no security and gladly piss our PII into the wind without taking the job seriously.

Total population (341M) is the wrong divisor. It’s so much worse. Count the number of Americans who would have an ID worth scanning (aka ages 18 or over): 269M [1]. Or the number of Americans with a driver’s license: 212M (2013) [2]. 1: https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popest/tables/2020-... 2: https://www.bts.gov/content/licensed-drivers

Excellent catch. Somehow even worse than I first thought.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#193
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States doesn't have a central registry of citizens. New births are supposed to be recorded by local officials, in about 3000 different jurisdictions, and they're only recorded locally. Many of those local jurisdictions are operated poorly, and in some cases they have refused to issue certificates of birth based on race, or other personal grudges held by officials. So we simply aren't in the position to iss…

Anyone can request their birth certificate in the jurisdiction of recording. There is absolutely no mechanism by which a request for that documentation could be refused because of someone’s race or a grudge.

What do you mean no mechanism? People can just say no? What I think you mean is that they’re are mechanisms today to combat folks saying no, but nothing stops (only punushes) people from saying no.

It’s a lot harder these days given the 60 years of progress

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#194

I know some modern, normal countries have done variations of this but the US missed a golden opportunity to give everyone an RSA keypair when they were coerced into signing up for an Enhanced/REAL ID. Instead of scanning, taking photos of or holding licences up to webcams (I was asked to do this recently) you provide your public key or, better, a signed message containing the name, website or other identifier which g…

> give everyone an RSA keypair

Effectively this allows the keypair issuing government (and thus whoever collects breach data) the ability to impersonate you. Seems like a terrible idea.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#195
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it The fact that USA never finished the Real ID thing as the Citizen ID in Europe is kind of mind blowi…

> The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it > It is elegant solution to everything what current administration is complaining about - prove of…

American States are not sovereign entities. We fought an entire war over that.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would probably be considered “disenfranchising” because people would have a hard time keeping track of their public key and the process to recover it would involve having to take off work, transportation, etc.

Ah yes, a facetious jab at legitimate criticisms of Voter ID laws. It's worth pointing out that the point of contact for state IDs is the DMV, which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint. If, instead, it was done at USPS offices or even by postal workers on their routes, no one would complain. It's entirely about whether the burden is placed on the citizen to maintain their Constitutionally guarantee…

> which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint

I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government. They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later).

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#197
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it The fact that USA never finished the Real ID thing as the Citizen ID in Europe is kind of mind blowi…

The United States doesn't have a central registry of citizens. New births are supposed to be recorded by local officials, in about 3000 different jurisdictions, and they're only recorded locally. Many of those local jurisdictions are operated poorly, and in some cases they have refused to issue certificates of birth based on race, or other personal grudges held by officials. So we simply aren't in the position to iss…

The social security administration does have a central database of essentially everyone born in the US after 1986, when a law was passed that required you to provide the SSN of anyone you claimed as a dependent on your taxes. As a result essentially every child born in the US is issued an SSN along with their birth certificate.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have a monopoly on violence in the country I have not seen a definition of this that is simultaneously true and useful The sole provider of violence in the U.S. is not the government.

"Monopoly on violence" isn't some new concept I just invented here, it's a established concept about "legal use of force", which the government typically is the sole arbiter of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence Of course many engage in "violence", or "provide it", that is not in doubt.

I know it’s not new, thus why I said I’ve never seen a definition that is both true and useful.

In the U.S. I can lawfully use violence in many ways under many circumstances. I.E. if you’re in my house and I didn’t invite you there, I can slay you lawfully.

In the U.S. the federal government is not the only institution responsible for law making or law enforcement. It is not only entity that can lawfully use violence. Etc.

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#199
post #12

The thing that really gets me about this one is that surely you can easily just delete the data after you've verified someone? But instead they decided to keep 153,347,439 of them.

Deleting the data after verification is a good practice. But if you're actively compromised, it probably doesn't matter how long you keep the data because it's already been immediately "backed up" by the intruders the second it is collected. Much like Target and Home Depot with their big credit card breaches a decade ago. Everyone was up in arms about these companies "storing" full credit card records, when in realit…

> the attackers had card-sniffing malware installed on every single cash register

Part of the attack was physical, aka skimmers. I still remember the relatively elegant inspection tool blogged by Target Tech on HN 3 years ago:

Target's EasySweep – Simplifying Skimmer Detection: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36788831

Re: FBI Probes Service Selling 153M+ Drivers Licenses

#200

I know some modern, normal countries have done variations of this but the US missed a golden opportunity to give everyone an RSA keypair when they were coerced into signing up for an Enhanced/REAL ID. Instead of scanning, taking photos of or holding licences up to webcams (I was asked to do this recently) you provide your public key or, better, a signed message containing the name, website or other identifier which g…

the average american, even educated and talented ones, have absolutely no serious understanding what keypairs are, or why they need to take care of them

i also have 0 trust in the USG's ability to not lose those, either through hacking or through blatent corruption a la DOGE, et al

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