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Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

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Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#171

Post by helsinkiandrew »

dgellow wrote: post #3

The claims: - Mr. Liu not only downloaded a confidential Apple circuit schematic but also used it in his work at OpenAI; - Far from his unauthorized access to Apple’s third-party cloud storage being unknown to him, Mr. Liu and others at OpenAI were well-aware of that access; - Mr. Liu, upon learning of Apple’s internal investigation of him, sent instructions for destroying evidence to an OpenAI colleague who confirme…

> Liu said his AI “agent” learned to run LTspice and review the results.

The irony if it was Fable/Mythos that when given a task, had discovered Liu had worked at Apple, hacked his laptop and used Apple data/IPR.

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#172

Post by brokenmachine »

pjmlp wrote: post #167
sokoloff wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have more personally owned computers than is reasonable, but I can understand people who get issued a company laptop and use it for everything. It’s a couple hundred bucks a year to keep a personal laptop and if you’re mostly accessing cloud services, I can easily understand the temptation to use a company laptop for it all.

I never worked on a job that company policy allowed for personal use. Naturally there are enough to try to flex the rules, while hoping not to get caught.

Lots of workplaces allow reasonable personal use.

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#173

Post by dxjxjdjsssb »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #163
blks wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really depends if company has some spyware installed. My work MacBook was just given me as plain new MacBook that I installed everything myself. Personal iCloud, work OneDrive, no corporate spyware

I have worked in 3 companies and none of them had installed anything on the work laptop. One IT department tried to, but I ignored all their messages. I would probably be pissed if I have to give up the right to work with privacy. I had formatted the laptop both while getting it and returning it. I had filevault on and I wouldn't have shared my password.

Modern MDM solutions use Apple Business Manager to automatically deploy the MDM after a system wipe. If you have a company owned Apple device, and the company has it enrolled in ABM, then you can wipe and filevault all you want, but the agent will still be reinstalled, and the file vault key escrowed.

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#174

Post by YetAnotherNick »

dxjxjdjsssb wrote: post #173
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in 3 companies and none of them had installed anything on the work laptop. One IT department tried to, but I ignored all their messages. I would probably be pissed if I have to give up the right to work with privacy. I had formatted the laptop both while getting it and returning it. I had filevault on and I wouldn't have shared my password.

Modern MDM solutions use Apple Business Manager to automatically deploy the MDM after a system wipe. If you have a company owned Apple device, and the company has it enrolled in ABM, then you can wipe and filevault all you want, but the agent will still be reinstalled, and the file vault key escrowed.

Yeah I know. It's not like Apple is trying to hide it or most companies try to hide spyware, and I know how to check for Apple business manager or spywares.

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#175

Post by pjmlp »

brokenmachine wrote: post #172
pjmlp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never worked on a job that company policy allowed for personal use. Naturally there are enough to try to flex the rules, while hoping not to get caught.

Lots of workplaces allow reasonable personal use.

The problem from IT security point of view is what is "reasonable" and how it impacts internal systems if the laptop gets used as attack vector.

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#176

Post by sokoloff »

ndriscoll wrote: post #137
sokoloff wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring them to make a (free) Apple account doesn’t sound unreasonable. “Go to https://account.apple.com/ and make one that doesn’t use your Apple corporate email” seems like a fair and legal work instruction to me.

That seems crazy to me. I've always had my employers either provide or offer to provide me with anything I'll use for work. Asking someone to use a non-corporate-managed account for work seems especially insane to me. I've never heard of that.

I don’t see as much difference as you seem to see here.

Day 1 at FooCorp: “As part of onboarding, please set up these two accounts, both of which FooCorp operates and bears all the costs for.”

Day 1 at Apple: “As part of onboarding, please set up these two accounts, both of which Apple operates and bears all the costs for.”

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#177

Post by lofaszvanitt »

bena wrote: post #33
himata4113 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because pepsi already had coca-cola's secret recipe. I'm sure if they didn't have it already they would have been more than happy to at least have some knowledge before reporting it, but not like they didn't have the talent, money or technology to reverse engineer it at least a decade ago at that point.

No, it's because Pepsi isn't trying to be Coke, they're trying to be better than Coke. So having the recipe is kind of moot. Even if they were to take the recipe and publish it for all to see, you would still need all of the other machinery that is Coca-Cola to make Coca-Cola. And then you have issues of quality. Coca-Cola has certain standards, it's not a guarantee that everyone else will have those same standards.…

So how come mango flavoured Pepsi is nowhere to be found? They get you hooked on a good flavour, and then, bam, they take it away.

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#178

Post by ndriscoll »

sokoloff wrote: post #176
ndriscoll wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems crazy to me. I've always had my employers either provide or offer to provide me with anything I'll use for work. Asking someone to use a non-corporate-managed account for work seems especially insane to me. I've never heard of that.

I don’t see as much difference as you seem to see here. Day 1 at FooCorp: “As part of onboarding, please set up these two accounts, both of which FooCorp operates and bears all the costs for.” Day 1 at Apple: “As part of onboarding, please set up these two accounts, both of which Apple operates and bears all the costs for.”

I've never heard of being asked by an employer to make an account associated to a non-work account (like a personal email). They should provision SSO, or at least use a company domain like apple.com or internal.apple.com for test accounts.

Day 1 at FooCorp: "Your email address is you@foocorp.com. Conducting business activities with personal accounts is against policy and may result in disciplinary action including termination. It may also be a regulatory violation depending on industry."

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#179

Post by Arnt »

ndriscoll wrote: post #137
sokoloff wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring them to make a (free) Apple account doesn’t sound unreasonable. “Go to https://account.apple.com/ and make one that doesn’t use your Apple corporate email” seems like a fair and legal work instruction to me.

That seems crazy to me. I've always had my employers either provide or offer to provide me with anything I'll use for work. Asking someone to use a non-corporate-managed account for work seems especially insane to me. I've never heard of that.

I assume they want the developers to dogfood the software they work on. Not crazy if so.

Re: Apple reveals 'shocking evidence' from ex-employee's MacBook in OpenAI suit

#180

Post by psd1 »

Muromec wrote: post #107
hananova wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except nobody can prove that those subagents aren't secretly sharing information with the main agent in the backend, and frankly I don't trust Anthropic not to do exactly that to cheese benchmarks.

You can always see the context trace and you can even do it at the network boundary through mitm and then store the traces gzipped for some legally mandated 5 years or what you have there.

It jumped out to me, in the metr report on the hf incident, that CoT was assumed unmodified. I do not know whether we can have that confidence.
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