Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012 • Hacker News Board

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#61

Post by meaty » Tue, Dec 18, 2012, 9:07 AM UTC

memset wrote: post #54

meaty wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I will. I find it embarrassing in the same way as I find computer science portrayals in movies embarrassing. Hax0r the planet etc... Making money - selling overpriced modules and branded crap for way more than marginal profit (compared to say RS/Farnell/Digikey) and shipping an identity rather than tools to solve problems. Understanding the market - actually they created a new market full of flashing LED cube mac…

I am a software engineer who dabbles in hardware. I know all about OS, algorithms, how to prevent deadlock, how to throw together a jquery web page, etc etc. And I have a rudimentary understanding of electronics. Enough to put together kits and follow tutorials. But there is a definite upper ceiling I hit for the projects I want to build because I don't have the background. Complex numbers, signal processing, etc - I…

Knowing where to look and what order to do things in is the key to success on this. Without understanding in a reasonable order you're screwed, hence your Vcc problem. If you dredge through the basics up to BJTs, you would suddenly realise that it's "voltage common collector" (or +v). This kind of demonstrates my point. This is no personal reflection of your progress - just an observation.

With all the free resources out there, it's probably best to do the following. This is my personal recommendation and it's what I throw people towards who want a solid understanding of the subject:

1. Start with Khan Academy and do at least up to the end of Linear Algebra. Make sure you cover trig as well. Do the first few sections on arithmetic with a calculator or skip them if you can't be bothered. Arithmetic isn't all that important in maths. Grab a reasonably new Casio calc with solver and calculus functions such as FX-991ES as well.

2. Pick up the NEETS guides from [1] and work through the first module [2] until you get a rough understanding of what electricity is. Some eye openers in there which surprise a lot of people.

3. Grab a copy of "the art of electronics" and the associated student guide and work through the latter using the former as a reference ONLY (seriously the latter is an awesome book which contains some real practical hints and tips that are missing from everything else). The main art of electronics is a disjoint mess of information but the student guide uses the right approach.

4. Move slowly to AC circuits, referring back to Khan Academy if you get stuck on the maths and NEETS as the fundamental information.

5. Rinse and repeat. You will be able to chose your own path when you get through those bits.

Also, best advice in the world - buy an analogue oscilloscope - an old 25MHz one can be had on ebay for virtually nothing. It doesn't have to be a nice one - just something that works. I've got one that is 35 years old that is fine - it cost me $20! Ignore those digital ones - they're a piece of shit unless you want to spend upwards of $500.

You can probably do the whole series in a year or so with $100-200 investment which is less than an iPhone.

If you get royally stuck, visit http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/ and there are plenty of us who will help you out.

[1] http://www.phy.davidson.edu/instrumentation/NEETS.htm

[2] When I say work through the modules, I mean buy some components and actually build some stuff and play with it rather than just mindlessly sap up the theory.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#62

Post by meaty » Tue, Dec 18, 2012, 9:16 AM UTC

pyre wrote: post #39

meaty wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people who benefit from these sorts of products don't have a firm grasp of math and engineering to start with. Our education sucks in the US. Giving them a helping hand is a terrific way to swell the ranks of STEM professionals and introduce people to solving problems they would never have considered otherwise. Just teach them engineering! Not pussy foot around and molly coddle them.

Your approach to this comes across as the equivalent of lamenting the state of 'kids these days' because 'back in the day,' if you did something wrong the priest would 'beat some sense into you.' Some people find the idea of engineering and/or mathematics intimidating. If approached in the right way, it will 'click' for them, or at the very least their fears can be assuaged (allowing them to pursue higher learning).…

You are correct. I don't "beat" it into them - I spent literally years doing 1:1 with people and providing learning material, defining tasks and milestones and days in the lab.

I want people to react to this because I think the issue requires some consideration. We're losing and compartmentalising knowledge to the point that people have no idea what they're really doing any more.

There is no one true path of engineering enlightenment but there is some magic when someone actually really understands what they're doing.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#63

Post by meaty » Tue, Dec 18, 2012, 9:19 AM UTC

wglb wrote: post #46

meaty wrote: post #5

Am I the only one who finds the 'maker movement' slightly embarrassing. There are plenty of us before Limor who did the same stuff without the fanfare and movement crap. This isn't a flame - I'm just surprised that the application of spin managed to produce such a ton of noise.

Judging from the comments, yes, you are.

Judging by the ratio of upvotes to downvotes, I think there is a divided opinion which needs discussing. I'm open to both sides of the argument.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#64

Post by leoedin » Tue, Dec 18, 2012, 9:46 AM UTC

meaty wrote: post #8

jamesbritt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "same stuff"? Were you selling kits and tools to people who might not have previously thought of themselves as makers, making it super easy to jump in and get started? This is what I think she's got the attention for.

Yeah I actually designed two kits for maplin in the 90s before they started shipping velleman shit and containers full of Chinese plastic crap. Everyone sold the tools, kits and parts already. All that had been achieved is the application of hype and turning a bunch of prepackaged modules into a way of excusing the user from having to know what the hell they are doing. It's turned engineering into painting by numbers…

How can you be so negative about something which is providing a low-barrier entry point into electronics? Surely even if a few more people buy one of these kits and then start developing stuff themselves it's a good thing?

I know that my entry to electronics was assembly workshops run by the local university at a science fair. Every year you could buy an electronic kit and assemble it (following instructions) into something that did something (normally it was fairly useless). I don't think I understood what was happening in that kit at all, but it introduced me to the concept of electronics as something that you could work with.

I think the problem is you're assuming that the users would otherwise know more, when in fact it's more likely that if they weren't provided the tools by adafruit they'd know even less about electronics.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#65

Post by vaxdigitalnh » Tue, Dec 18, 2012, 10:29 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #15

meaty wrote: post #5

Am I the only one who finds the 'maker movement' slightly embarrassing. There are plenty of us before Limor who did the same stuff without the fanfare and movement crap. This isn't a flame - I'm just surprised that the application of spin managed to produce such a ton of noise.

I think the same thing about Google. We all have 'grep', don't we? Ooooh, look at the big company, running grep on 1,000,000 computers. Give me 1,000,000 computers and I'll run grep on them too! Don't any of you people remember Archie? Google is just Archie with a bunch of movement crap.

I remember. I must admit it annoys me sometimes how easily impressed kids are with something like Google. And a lot of it seems to stem from "scale". The web is much larger than in 1995, computers are more powerful, but no web company can take credit for that; they are incidental beneficiaries. All these companies use the large numbers associated with today's web to impress the easily impressed.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#66

Post by tcoop25 » Tue, Dec 18, 2012, 8:13 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #8

jamesbritt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "same stuff"? Were you selling kits and tools to people who might not have previously thought of themselves as makers, making it super easy to jump in and get started? This is what I think she's got the attention for.

Yeah I actually designed two kits for maplin in the 90s before they started shipping velleman shit and containers full of Chinese plastic crap. Everyone sold the tools, kits and parts already. All that had been achieved is the application of hype and turning a bunch of prepackaged modules into a way of excusing the user from having to know what the hell they are doing. It's turned engineering into painting by numbers…

Where is the off button on this guy?

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#67

Post by ptorrone » Fri, Dec 21, 2012, 12:07 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #60

daemon13 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get discouraged by nasty replies. Unfortunately, I observe the same trend - the whole generation of current 15-20 are shortcutting as a life style. Instead of engineering/making things, I observe this in other areas - finance, economics, accounting, math, stats... Sad to say my son is a good example here.

I work in the financial services sector now. We see the same thing with maths, stats and finance as well as electronics. People can't even do basic projection calculations such as TVM because they don't know what a logarithm is. True knowledge is rotting. The only advantage is that if you know your shit, then you're in an incredibly better situation than anyone else.

@meaty you say "I work in the financial services sector now".

with all your potential to teach and share your vast electronics knowledge, why stick around in finance? there isn't enough people willing to dedicate their time helping. snarky-commenting on hackernews does not change things - actual work does. write some articles, posting tutorials and ship cool kits - join in!

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#68

Post by tricky_t » Fri, Dec 21, 2012, 1:25 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #5

Am I the only one who finds the 'maker movement' slightly embarrassing. There are plenty of us before Limor who did the same stuff without the fanfare and movement crap. This isn't a flame - I'm just surprised that the application of spin managed to produce such a ton of noise.

"There are plenty of us before Limor who did the same stuff without the fanfare and movement crap."

That's true. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way for people to buy your kits and learn from your vast engineering knowledge, so they've all started giving their money to someone else. Whose fault is that?

Talk is cheap. Consider putting your money where your mouth is.

Re: Adafruit CEO Limor Fried named Entrepreneur magazine Entrepreneur of 2012

#69

Post by tricky_t » Fri, Dec 21, 2012, 1:33 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #28

xradionut wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there are a ton of us old farts that have been sniffing solder flumes and flipping switches for years. :) Adafruit and newer companies of this ilk fill a need for us oldtimers and the newcomers. Many of my old sources of various parts and kits are dead, evolved or just didn't handle the transition to the internet well.

The kits didn't survive, but the parts did. The problem is no-one knows how to use the parts unless they are assembled into kits. The whole maker movement solves this by making kits, therefore raising the bedrock abstraction for knowledge way too high. The better solution would be to teach people how to use the parts, which is my problem.

"The problem is no-one knows how to use the parts unless they are assembled into kits... that's my problem."

Funny, I've designed and built from scratch all sorts of advanced analog and mixed-signal circuits using my "secret" EE knowledge. I've also built kits from Adafruit. I had a great time doing both, and do not consider them mutually exclusive.

I don't think the ignorance of _other_ people is your problem.