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Reverse engineering my ADHD test

nullpt.rs

61–70 of 247 posts

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#61

I spent a decent amount working on ADHD diagnostics and unfortunately it sucks. To my knowledge, to this day, there isn’t a single reliable biomarker that identifies autism spectrum disorders. It’s usually correlation studies paired with questionnaires which for lack of better words can be described as “incidental” at best. Most z scored tests I know are also developed with small samples, a hundred participants with…

From a molecular neuroscience perspective, for both ADHD and ASD (autism) you're unlikely to find any pure biomarkers as clean as a disease like huntingtons disease whose mechanism is clearly understood as extra CAG repeats on the HTT gene (a clean mendelian disorder). ADHD is defined by behavior/cognitive symptoms and most all behavior/cognitive diseases are multifactoral, which ADHD is. WES/WGS and GWAS has been done and for familial ADHD and unlike ASD there is mostly no clear monogenic mutation (a single gene that would explain the phenotype) [note monogenic mutations are usually a very small subset of cases but give scientists a look into what pathway/mechanism is causing a multifactoral disease]. Thus it is not for a lack of looking classically, and deficit is speculated to likely manifest as a neural circuit organization or synaptic issue (though the latter is more closely linked to ASD). This is currently impossible (basically) to measure in alive human brain as it requires nanoscopic imaging, note how challenging the fly map was (incomplete IMO as well).

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#62

hi! author here, please let me know if you have any questions :-)

Have you got some fancy scroll thing for your blog? Something in my brain is noticing that scrolling feels smoother than your average site, though maybe im crazy.

I do not! Other than when clicking a section from the table of contents. Is it distracting?

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#63

hi! author here, please let me know if you have any questions :-)

I have a question (and please take it in jest)! In between buying a telescope, seeking out an opinion on ADHD, accidentally hacking an online test, and then blogging about it, how many things on your todo list(s) did you not do?

I actually wanted to make a YouTube video for this as well! I also have a few more web fingerprinting blog posts in the backlog T_T

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#64

I spent a decent amount working on ADHD diagnostics and unfortunately it sucks. To my knowledge, to this day, there isn’t a single reliable biomarker that identifies autism spectrum disorders. It’s usually correlation studies paired with questionnaires which for lack of better words can be described as “incidental” at best. Most z scored tests I know are also developed with small samples, a hundred participants with…

From a molecular neuroscience perspective, for both ADHD and ASD (autism) you're unlikely to find any pure biomarkers as clean as a disease like huntingtons disease whose mechanism is clearly understood as extra CAG repeats on the HTT gene (a clean mendelian disorder). ADHD is defined by behavior/cognitive symptoms and most all behavior/cognitive diseases are multifactoral, which ADHD is. WES/WGS and GWAS has been do…

ADHD also evolutionary advantages, so there is unlikely to be a single gene that encodes for it.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brother the test is quick, easy, and painless, and the results can be lifechanging. The other thing is, ADHD in my mind is really a syndrome that starts with a symptom - inattention - that can be caused by so, so many things. I have both, because of course I do, I had a medical problem that exacerbated my ADHD to a significant, significant degree (it's amazing I was able to be a software engineer for so long without…

I want to add that the comment is also funny to me because it and the blog post are very relatable to me. I don't mean to dismiss it at all. It's really important to get a good diagnosis for anything like this and not dismiss it or lock into the wrong diagnosis because of your own tunnel vision. You wrote "the test is quick, easy, and painless" but I also want to note that it's not always. Depending on your country,…

The thing is, the test is super quick and easy. And then they throw 50 procedurally complex and tedious tasks at someone who can definitionally not do that, and they know that. Kafkaesque.

Btw no criticism implied on my end, I'm just now constitutionally incapable of not telling people they should get screened. Hmmm I wonder why I have difficulty resisting that urge...

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to add that the comment is also funny to me because it and the blog post are very relatable to me. I don't mean to dismiss it at all. It's really important to get a good diagnosis for anything like this and not dismiss it or lock into the wrong diagnosis because of your own tunnel vision. You wrote "the test is quick, easy, and painless" but I also want to note that it's not always. Depending on your country,…

The thing is, the test is super quick and easy. And then they throw 50 procedurally complex and tedious tasks at someone who can definitionally not do that, and they know that. Kafkaesque. Btw no criticism implied on my end, I'm just now constitutionally incapable of not telling people they should get screened. Hmmm I wonder why I have difficulty resisting that urge...

I think I get your point. It's cruel to require Kafkaesque testing and that just makes it not worth it try. But too simple of a test can also misdiagnose.

The chance to be diagnosed with an appropriate gate varies greatly based on where you live and which doctor you can see and more. It can be anything from a 5 minute conversation, to 6 months of inconvenience, to no chance of even existing in your lifetime, to suck it up and don't ask because your career will end.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#67
post #27

> At the end, she told me she would review my exam and have the results ready in a few days. Yeah man I can go ahead and let you know early if you want.

I know this is a joke, but I'd be careful about assuming: I had a trained therapist diagnose me with ADHD ... incorrectly . It turns out, there are other conditions out there that can appear to be be ADHD. If a trained therapist can confuse them, outside observers certainly can too, so it is possible that "very ADHD-acting" person you know might not have it. (Or, especially for females, the reverse can be true, as no…

I understand this is your personal medical info, but could you drop any hints as to the nature of the misdiagnosis? I've learned late in life that I am neurospicy and learning from other's experiences in this domain has been quite helpful.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#68
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't have to be ADHD, could be the *tism too. The tells are usually somewhat overlapping. In general, if you are in the industry, save yourself (and your kids) some trouble and get diagnosed before it becomes a problem. Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course

That’s basically how the end of my diagnosis went because aspects of my results were borderline, so she suggested that I just try meds to see. But keep in mind that only one type of ADHD involves being hyper. Some of us are inattentive types where our brain feels like an old 70s pony car engine, and if you pull up to a stoplight you need to keep the motor revving or it will stall. Taking Ritalin for us is the equival…

If you're borderline, talk to the doc about a trial of guanfacine. (note that some people HATE it, for exactly this reason) It's the opposite - if your engine is always redlining, it sets a rate limiter and gives you the chance to look out the window and enjoy the scenery, metaphorically.

And in the most interesting cases, you can find a lot of value in both - stimulants keeps you going, guanfacine gives you perspective and the ability to unclench.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#69
post #29
post #3

Opening up devtools during ADHD test is so ADHD, almost as if he didn't even need the psychiatrist to explain the results :D

That doesn't have to be ADHD, could be the *tism too. The tells are usually somewhat overlapping. In general, if you are in the industry, save yourself (and your kids) some trouble and get diagnosed before it becomes a problem. Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course

So this is the cheats with "give everyone ritalin and see how they feel" - it works for most neurotypical folks too. It's just a very small increase compared to the annoyance and side effects, so it's usually not worth it. To extend the car analogy from a sibling comment, putting race fuel in a volvo.

So they can't test by response, because everyone would be like "yeah I can focus better", you have to test with the drug on, and the drug off, to see whether the "horsepower increase" is worth the fuel price. Increasingly strained metaphors are my strength.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#70
post #36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't have to be ADHD, could be the *tism too. The tells are usually somewhat overlapping. In general, if you are in the industry, save yourself (and your kids) some trouble and get diagnosed before it becomes a problem. Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course

> Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course I have been screened a few times for ADHD and each time was found to obviously have it. Ritalin does not make me feel calmer. I have been told by those close to me that there are externally visible improvements in my behavior. At doses to reach that effect, it also impacts my sleep qualit…

I had a doc that prescribed me amphetamine. It was glorious for work, being in one of those horrendous open table environments with only a screen in front of you to keep from staring at the person directly across.

I was able to laser focus and jam through things but the side effects were not worth it and I backed off. I've yet to find a magic pill that does that without the side effects.

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