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Reverse engineering my ADHD test

nullpt.rs

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Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#31

Post by 1659447091 »

pixel_popping wrote: post #8

[flagged]

> it's a serious dysfunction [...] treated ADHD can make you productive "all the time", you end up addicted and pretty much permanently require drugs to function well

On its own, its not "a serious dysfunction". Within the context of operating within the current societal setup for a paycheck that provides basic survival needs, yeah.

It allows me to sit down and do 'something' without being taken completely off task for the rest of the day because someone kept knocking on the door or reading a hostile/complaint email. What that 'something' is is not always 'productive' but now I can do it without everyday things or upcoming events throwing me in a completely different direction.

Meds helps with the alignment issue. If you are taking meds and its making you "productive all the time" and you find yourself addicted to it, I suggest talking to your doctor about that. I had to work with CBT just to form a habit of remembering to take the medication, and it took a few years before I finally started to remember regularly. I still forget on days that dont fit into that routine

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#32

Post by jaggederest »

nullpt_rs wrote: post #15
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that ADHD is a serious condition for many people, and that it's overly romanticized and that isn't good when it comes to getting help for those that do need it. To that point, I'm going push back on this language just a bit: > you end up addicted and pretty much permanently require drugs to function well That is negatively framing medication, which if taken properly as prescribed is no different than any othe…

Agree with original commenter but +1 to reframing the language. I was very afraid to begin medication because I would always hear about how addicting this medication can be. But like you say, you wouldn't tell someone with diabetes that they're addicted to insulin.

I'm addicted to several things. Like eyeglasses, and breathing.

The difference the medication makes is similarly revelatory to putting on eyeglasses. Of course you never want to take them off.

There's no withdrawal symptoms, per se, for most people, the addiction is purely psychological from "trying to drive with only 3 tires sucks"

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#33

Post by usernametaken29 »

I spent a decent amount working on ADHD diagnostics and unfortunately it sucks. To my knowledge, to this day, there isn’t a single reliable biomarker that identifies autism spectrum disorders. It’s usually correlation studies paired with questionnaires which for lack of better words can be described as “incidental” at best. Most z scored tests I know are also developed with small samples, a hundred participants with an outgroup of 20 would already be a LARGE sample. The standard ADHD questionnaire was validated on some 35 people.

There might be some hope in deep learning, particularly in observing eye movement components to deliver reliable biomarkers in the future, but I’m not so confident any time soon.

It’s dreadful and fascinating at the same time that defining and testing for ADS has been so elusive for so long…

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#34

Post by OkayPhysicist »

drakythe wrote: post #24
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that ADHD is a serious condition for many people, and that it's overly romanticized and that isn't good when it comes to getting help for those that do need it. To that point, I'm going push back on this language just a bit: > you end up addicted and pretty much permanently require drugs to function well That is negatively framing medication, which if taken properly as prescribed is no different than any othe…

I think it is also worth reframing what "functioning well" means. Society expects certain things of us and our brains function in a way that those things are more difficult. Is that our fault, or society, or some mix? Isn't it possible that society itself could adjust in such a way that people who naturally struggle to sit in a cubicle doing the same thing all day every day could be offered other options? Seems like…

I can't fix society. I can, however, take a pill that lets me hold down a job long enough to not fall into crippling debt.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#35

Post by anamexis »

usernametaken29 wrote: post #33

I spent a decent amount working on ADHD diagnostics and unfortunately it sucks. To my knowledge, to this day, there isn’t a single reliable biomarker that identifies autism spectrum disorders. It’s usually correlation studies paired with questionnaires which for lack of better words can be described as “incidental” at best. Most z scored tests I know are also developed with small samples, a hundred participants with…

ADHD is not an autism spectrum disorder, is it?

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#36

Post by aidenn0 »

Muromec wrote: post #29
flysand7 wrote: post #3

Opening up devtools during ADHD test is so ADHD, almost as if he didn't even need the psychiatrist to explain the results :D

That doesn't have to be ADHD, could be the *tism too. The tells are usually somewhat overlapping. In general, if you are in the industry, save yourself (and your kids) some trouble and get diagnosed before it becomes a problem. Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course

> Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course

I have been screened a few times for ADHD and each time was found to obviously have it.

Ritalin does not make me feel calmer. I have been told by those close to me that there are externally visible improvements in my behavior. At doses to reach that effect, it also impacts my sleep quality enough that I don't take it.

Adderall causes mild symptoms of psychosis and mania before it has any theraputic effect.

Dexmethylphenidate (aka Focalin) has identical theraputic effects to ritalin, but slightly reduced side-effects.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#37

Post by gavinmckenzie »

Muromec wrote: post #29
flysand7 wrote: post #3

Opening up devtools during ADHD test is so ADHD, almost as if he didn't even need the psychiatrist to explain the results :D

That doesn't have to be ADHD, could be the *tism too. The tells are usually somewhat overlapping. In general, if you are in the industry, save yourself (and your kids) some trouble and get diagnosed before it becomes a problem. Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course

That’s basically how the end of my diagnosis went because aspects of my results were borderline, so she suggested that I just try meds to see. But keep in mind that only one type of ADHD involves being hyper. Some of us are inattentive types where our brain feels like an old 70s pony car engine, and if you pull up to a stoplight you need to keep the motor revving or it will stall. Taking Ritalin for us is the equivalent of keeping the revs up.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#38

Post by usernametaken29 »

anamexis wrote: post #35
usernametaken29 wrote: post #33

I spent a decent amount working on ADHD diagnostics and unfortunately it sucks. To my knowledge, to this day, there isn’t a single reliable biomarker that identifies autism spectrum disorders. It’s usually correlation studies paired with questionnaires which for lack of better words can be described as “incidental” at best. Most z scored tests I know are also developed with small samples, a hundred participants with…

ADHD is not an autism spectrum disorder, is it?

That’s my bad for conflating the two. Indeed they are not the same in ICT-11 but! diagnostics is moving towards the direction of treating them the same. ADHD and ASD have extremely high comorbidity and it has been proposed many times to classify them together because the symptoms overlap (difficulties at school, aggressive behaviour or temper, lack of social skills, etc). In fact it has become so difficult to find distinctive features of ADHD both in diagnostics AND treatment (both are usually treated with cognitive behavioural therapy and in more severe cases medication) that it has been proposed numerous times to drop their distinction in the ICT, but this hasn’t happened yet. Good paper to the point:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4654237/

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#39

Post by poopmonster »

anamexis wrote: post #35
usernametaken29 wrote: post #33

I spent a decent amount working on ADHD diagnostics and unfortunately it sucks. To my knowledge, to this day, there isn’t a single reliable biomarker that identifies autism spectrum disorders. It’s usually correlation studies paired with questionnaires which for lack of better words can be described as “incidental” at best. Most z scored tests I know are also developed with small samples, a hundred participants with…

ADHD is not an autism spectrum disorder, is it?

No, however they are often comorbid.

Re: Reverse engineering my ADHD test

#40

Post by fv3y »

aidenn0 wrote: post #36
Muromec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't have to be ADHD, could be the *tism too. The tells are usually somewhat overlapping. In general, if you are in the industry, save yourself (and your kids) some trouble and get diagnosed before it becomes a problem. Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course

> Add: I wonder why they don't just give people some ritalin and ask if they feel calmed down? Except the obvious reason of course I have been screened a few times for ADHD and each time was found to obviously have it. Ritalin does not make me feel calmer. I have been told by those close to me that there are externally visible improvements in my behavior. At doses to reach that effect, it also impacts my sleep qualit…

I'm still on my journey of finding meds (and dosages) that work but I would highly recommend for anyone who has a inattentive scatterbrain to try lis/dexamphetamine.

Methylphenidates can be quite numbing (zombifying) in my group of ADHD friends but dex seems to have a more consistenly helpful effect. The unfortunate caveat for me is that I personally seem predisposed to pelvic floor/urinary issues, which you'll find anecdotal evidence of being exacerbated by amphetamines (research seems yet to catch up), but aside from that the theraputic effects, particularly in emotional regulation seem so far unmatched.

It's unfortunate we have such a tentative model of how our body and, particularly, our minds work so drug treatments often require a trial and error process.

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