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Hy4 preview

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Re: Hy4 preview

#231

Post by gpugreg »

dominotw wrote: post #218
dakolli wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Deepseek invented the paradigm of prompt caching, they are the SOTA when it comes these techniques. Despite them open sourcing all their research, nobody beats them. edit: I do wish openrouter would let you sort providers by Cache Hit % and Cache cost. These are the only things that matter to me at this point when choosing a provider.

> open sourcing all their research, is this true?

Not all their research, but certainly a lot: https://github.com/orgs/deepseek-ai/repositories?q=sort%3Ast...

Re: Hy4 preview

#232

Post by zhahhshsj »

vasco wrote: post #175
sujzhsbnwjek wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These “worst people” need you. They physically need you alive to perform labor for them and to give them money (and status). That’s the reason we are “doing fine”. Once they stop needing you.. Also, both our comments brush over the generational struggles for fairness over the centuries. We have fought to be “fine”, it did not just happen. Without fairness being introduced by force you and I would be slaving away in s…

My only point is in a many agent system with different goals it "doesn't matter" that some agents have bad goals as long as there's enough variability of goals and resources that they can't put their vision in place.

I know but that is just .. not how it works. Humans don’t align on just about anything but they will do tremendous mindboggling amounts of harm if not checked by mountains of checks and balances. Sheer variety alone is not a guarantee of anything.

Many types of Hitler does not make for a peaceful world all of sudden through sheer competition. It sounds nice but it will lead to certain hell.

Re: Hy4 preview

#233

Post by stymaar »

ziofill wrote: post #195
blackhaz wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, do we need a new benchmark? There's quite a bit of feedback data floating around about pelicans on bicycles already.

That’s a fair question, but it seems that it’s not yet necessary. See here https://dylancastillo.co/posts/pelicanmaxxing.html https://simonwillison.net/2026/Jul/22/

I don't think this argument is a good one though, as it would be quite natural for a lab rhat want to macimize the performance of their model on the pelican bench to train it for “text-to-svg simple image generation” rather than just “pelicans on bicycle”.

Re: Hy4 preview

#234

Post by miroljub »

dotancohen wrote: post #177
beefsack wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but imagine agents using caveman speak sometimes start behaving in a stereotypically caveman manner, even if it's subtle. Is there a chance the agent does less reasoning because of it?

Caveman invented fire, the wheel, domesticated wild plants and animals, organised society, survived the Toba catastrophe, cooked food, and was having sex ages before you and me. Don't write him off as stupid.

[flagged]

Re: Hy4 preview

#235

Post by CamperBob2 »

realo wrote: post #221
blackqueeriroh wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lmao that’s exactly capitalism

Oh. Administration corrupted up to it's very core? Check. Nihilism of anyone not part of the proper color, gender, whatever agenda? Check. Unlawful surveillance? Check. Sending totally innocent citizens to prison with many of them dying mysteriously? Check. Killing innocent people in the streets simply because they dare protest peacefully? Check. Welcome to North Korea! Oups. Confused. Welcome to the GREAT US of A! W…

You need to go back to school and demand a refund if you think any of that is "true capitalism."

Better yet, just go back to Reddit.

Re: Hy4 preview

#236

Post by RussianCow »

dakolli wrote: post #214
RussianCow wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else would you expect them to calculate it?

Do you really think they're docking points because cache invalidation due to provider switching? Seriously llms are frying ya'lls brain.

They're not "docking points", they're calculating it in the most straightforward way. If I start a session and the majority of requests are sent to Provider A, and my last request gets routed to Provider B, I have a 0% cache hit rate with Provider B. I'm very curious how else you expect this to be calculated? Do you think they're completely omitting requests that switch providers mid-session?

FWIW, I get significantly higher than listed cache hit rates when I pin my session to a specific provider, which is further evidence of the above.

Re: Hy4 preview

#237

Post by RussianCow »

ralusek wrote: post #71
Bolwin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cache hit % on openrouter is not a good metric, it's mainly driven by openrouter's own provider juggling than the providers themselves

> Cache hit % I thought you had to actively manage caches, do you not?

Most providers do what's called "prefix caching", where each turn in a session is cached such that sending new messages with the exact same "prefix" (set of previous messages) gives you the cache read price on that input instead of the full price. As long as you're not changing your system prompt, available tools, etc mid-session, you automatically benefit from this.

Re: Hy4 preview

#238

Post by RussianCow »

andai wrote: post #213
dakolli wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the prefix matches a request sent to the same Providor. The thing is the TTL is different for each provider, some cache for 5 minutes some cache for 1hr. Its ideal to only use one provider per agent session / and per model with the best cache hit % if you care about costs.

But before 5m the hit rate is 100%, and after it's 0%? Why is there a probability? Is there some stochastic process that takes place during those 5 minutes that determines whether or not you get the discount?

Presumably the number that OpenRouter shows is averaged across all requests.

Re: Hy4 preview

#239

Post by hgoel »

nextaccountic wrote: post #156
hgoel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scientific physics simulations - even the frontier models just engage in rationalization of obviously unphysical results instead of understanding the system. They have the rote knowledge but fail to apply it unless their hand is held through the process.

Today's models can just write code to run the simulation instead

I am referring to doing exactly that.

Realistic, scientifically useful simulations still require tuning all sorts of parameters based on physical intuition and understanding of the system being simulated. Both Sol and Fable/Opus 5 fail at it and either blow up the computation cost to levels that can't be processed realistically, or they invent a justification for a visibly unphysical result.

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