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California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

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Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#81

Post by lukeify »

rgmerk wrote: post #30
kersplody wrote: post #5

Cool now let's exempt hobbyists from the 3-D printer must certify you are not printing gun parts pending legislation.

A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem. I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it. Personally, I think given there is an actual documented, non-iso…

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#82

Post by crote »

leni536 wrote: post #54
rgmerk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem. I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it. Personally, I think given there is an actual documented, non-iso…

The problem may exist, but I don't believe that intrusive "gun part deyection" solves it.

The obvious answer is to slice up your gun model into a number of sub-parts which individually aren't detected by the algorithm but collectively still form a functioning gun. And there's an unlimited number of ways to slice up a model, so it is impossible to create an algorithm which catches everything.

What's next, keep track of all printed parts and invent the math to recombine them in every way possible to see if it could form a gun? Trivially defeated by using multiple printers. Hmmm, sounds like a good reason to force everyone to register their 3D printer with their real identity, and only allow a print after the model has been uploaded to the Federal Printing Database for verification...

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#84

Post by rfgplk »

russellbeattie wrote: post #45

Laws need to be managed like software: There should be a process for testing, user feedback, quick patches for bugs or conflicts, and regular updates to fix issues. If you think about it, both laws and software are called "code". The problem is our legal system is still based on the waterfall method. Lawmakers try to plan for everything, laws meant to solve one problem face feature creep and create a thousand others,…

It's also hilarious how poorly defined so many laws are. So many loopholes and bugs everywhere. Probably because most lawyers/politicians are effectively illiterate when it comes to logic.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#85

Post by roosterIllusi0n »

pipes wrote: post #63

My gut reaction to this is that there is something seriously wrong if special clauses are required. Why should open source get special treatment, to me that just highlights that the law is utterly ridiculous.

Technically opensource stays the same. The special treatment is for closed source OSes that get an additional legal protection for their datamining. We should not be passing laws that legalize the datamining of people.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#86

Post by vbezhenar »

dgoldstein0 wrote: post #46
injidup wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I run my app in a linux container under windows and I'm exempt from age verification? Isn't android linux under the hood? I'm sure the law is not so easy to get around. How does it work?

It sounds like since Android is a commercial repackaging of Linux it's in scope and Google gets to figure it out.

Google literally backed and supported this law.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#87

Post by rfgplk »

rgmerk wrote: post #30
kersplody wrote: post #5

Cool now let's exempt hobbyists from the 3-D printer must certify you are not printing gun parts pending legislation.

A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem. I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it. Personally, I think given there is an actual documented, non-iso…

> A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem.

Making actual firearms from steel is trivial. In fact you can look up Kalashnikov designs online and then replicate it with a relatively simple mill/lathe/tapping setup.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#88

Post by johnnyanmac »

red_admiral wrote: post #73

We got into this mess because people wanted Facebook to have age verification, and MZ decided to push the responsibility on to OSes. The result looks to me like Facebook will ban access from non-approved OSes like Linux. Android will still be allowed, GrapheneOS probably not.

Facebook was the excuse (and there's a no zero chance Meta funded the initiative themselves). The government's worldwide jumped on it so quickly partially becsuse they've been trying to find aan excuse to control the internet for decades. Never dismiss how quick they are to push stuff like this but how slow they are to enact actual positive change for the people.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#89

Post by card_zero »

kennywinker wrote: post #71
gmueckl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS isn't Darwin and comes under terms that do not fit rhe criteria of the exception. Apple actually did go to some lengths in the past to ensure that all layers of MacOS contained bits that they could claim restrictive licenses on. A project like PureDarwin, however, can be freely distributed because it omits Apple's proprietary parts.

Macos contains elements that are open licensed. Many linux distros contain elements that are closed source. Where is the line? This law describes as a true-false something that is not only true or false. This law is poorly written. Amending it didn’t fix that.

Call in a Reasonable Person, when the position of the line is in question.
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