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California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

tomshardware.com

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Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#71

Post by kennywinker »

gmueckl wrote: post #69
kennywinker wrote: post #59

> (2) “Operating system provider” does not mean a person or entity that distributes an operating system or application under license terms that permit a recipient to copy, redistribute, and modify the software. Where does MacOS and iOS fit then? The core of both those operating systems (darwin) is open source (APSL licensed).

MacOS isn't Darwin and comes under terms that do not fit rhe criteria of the exception. Apple actually did go to some lengths in the past to ensure that all layers of MacOS contained bits that they could claim restrictive licenses on. A project like PureDarwin, however, can be freely distributed because it omits Apple's proprietary parts.

Macos contains elements that are open licensed. Many linux distros contain elements that are closed source. Where is the line?

This law describes as a true-false something that is not only true or false. This law is poorly written. Amending it didn’t fix that.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#72

Post by gmueckl »

rgmerk wrote: post #30
kersplody wrote: post #5

Cool now let's exempt hobbyists from the 3-D printer must certify you are not printing gun parts pending legislation.

A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem. I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it. Personally, I think given there is an actual documented, non-iso…

Then I missed the public discussion on why making it illegal to possess DIY guns is not enough. Did that actually get debated or just handwaved away? By the time I became aware of this whole technical blocking thing, that was the only proposal on the table.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#73

Post by red_admiral »

We got into this mess because people wanted Facebook to have age verification, and MZ decided to push the responsibility on to OSes.

The result looks to me like Facebook will ban access from non-approved OSes like Linux. Android will still be allowed, GrapheneOS probably not.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#74

Post by gmueckl »

zoobab wrote: post #7
edot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is fantastic. Should be top of the page. I’m honestly shocked, I’ve fully internalized that everything is corrupt and beholden to big corporations. Somehow, a victory! Looks like the Linux Foundation and EFF pushed back, but they’re not exactly big. Good job, California lawmakers!

Not a victory, Android is still covered.

AOSP itself shouldn't be.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#75

Post by cityofdelusion »

rgmerk wrote: post #30
kersplody wrote: post #5

Cool now let's exempt hobbyists from the 3-D printer must certify you are not printing gun parts pending legislation.

A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem. I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it. Personally, I think given there is an actual documented, non-iso…

3d printed guns are just a fancier pipe gun. Physics is the real enemy here. Make thing go fast out of tube is too simple of a design.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#78

Post by w10-1 »

kennywinker wrote: post #59

> (2) “Operating system provider” does not mean a person or entity that distributes an operating system or application under license terms that permit a recipient to copy, redistribute, and modify the software. Where does MacOS and iOS fit then? The core of both those operating systems (darwin) is open source (APSL licensed).

> copy, redistribute, and modify the software

I can copy and redistribute macOS binaries, and I can write programs/extensions that modify macOS.

These vague terms show that legislators are incapable of regulating software effectively; but they do create an enduring legal franchise to deal with their confusion.

Re: California lawmakers unanimously pass Linux exemption from age-verification law

#80

Post by crote »

rgmerk wrote: post #30
kersplody wrote: post #5

Cool now let's exempt hobbyists from the 3-D printer must certify you are not printing gun parts pending legislation.

A quick search suggests that 3D-printed guns being used in crime is an actual, for-real, and growing problem. I take it that you wouldn't be OK with somebody building a uranium enrichment facility in their backyard for their hobby reactor. So there is a line to be drawn on where people's freedom to tinker ends; it's just a question of where you draw it. Personally, I think given there is an actual documented, non-iso…

Fully 3D-printed guns have awful performance, though. You would likely get significantly better results improvising with the stuff available at literally any random hardware store. Yet, despite that kind of gun being around for centuries, we weirdly aren't seeing bans on rigid metal tubes yet.

3D-printed "guns" become a real issue when you combine it with unregulated sale of firearm parts and ammunition. To get a fully-functional gun you just need to 3D print a fairly trivial component which is legally considered the entire gun as it carries the serial number. But that's not a 3D printing problem, because there are also companies selling that same part in a mostly-finished legally-not-a-gun form, together with a drilling jig guiding you how to drill the last few holes with a regular Dremel. And nobody is proposing banning Dremels. Heck, it is totally okay to own a lathe - which you can use to make your own high-quality guns!

And the entire discussion is of course pointless once you realize that this is the USA, so anyone is only a weekend road trip away from legally and fully-anonymously buying a gun two states over. If 3D-printed guns are such a huge problem, why aren't we seeing European countries mass-banning 3D printers?

To extend your analogy: it's like being fine with the sale of ultracentrifuges and uranium hexafluoride, then getting upset at someone selling a screwdriver to attach the plug to the power cord of the ultracentrifuge because "screwdrivers lead to nuclear bombs".

3D printed guns are a nothingburger. There is indeed a non-zero number of violent crimes committed with them - but there is also a non-zero number of violent crimes committed with shoelaces, so that's clearly not enough of a reason to ban them. It only makes sense to regulate them if they are involved in a significant number of crimes and leading to a huge increase in gun violence - and at that point you probably want to crack down on all forms of DIY guns instead of just the 3D printed ones. But that's simply not the case, so the regulation is pointless and doing more harm than good.

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