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CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

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Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#631

Post by MetroWind »

deltarholamda wrote: post #565
crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

The value-add for a meatbag CEO is the physical networking they do. They have to do executive functions as well, which could quite possibly be replaced with a well-trained LLM and even possibly exceed in overall quality. But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed; they can't run into Jim Executive of BigCorp Inc. in Vail and scheme up some big ne…

... unless/until all CEOs are replaced with AI.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#632

Post by e36 »

meta_gunslinger wrote: post #491
UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were legitimately suddenly saddled with the responsibilities of a typical ‘CEO’, chances are you’d shit your britches within a month. Part of a CEO’s job is to be the target of all warranted and unwarranted blame for every single bad thing that anyone in the organisation experiences, even the inherent/inevitable ones, even the ones that others in the organisation see as a good thing. Me. Not a CEO, and no desi…

Exactly, as also evidenced by the guy who was brutally murdered just because he was the CEO of a company someone had an axe to grind against.

This account is posting comments every 0.01 seconds.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#633

Post by ozgung »

Gormo wrote: post #595
beepbooptheory wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. Do you think the same thing about the concept of social/economic class as well? Or is it just rejecting that there is typically a struggle between them?

Basically, yeah. Classification in general is a subjective, value-laden activity. At the most granular resolution, everything is fundamentally sui generis -- putting things into classes requires making subjective judgments about what qualities and characteristics you're going to ignore in order to focus on the ones you care about. Put simply, when you come up with a class/category taxonomy, you're drawing your own bo…

So you’re basically against the concept of classes and the act of classification. An interesting position to take in a hacker community but ok :)

However you can’t simply dismiss a whole literature of class struggle by simply rejecting the notion of class fundamentally.

Sure, every human being is unique and individual. But if you take a few million of them, patterns arise. Marketing people know and abuse this.

Also class struggle is not about an a priori theory. If you actually look at what people are doing, you can observe similar patterns too. You can see for instance that billionaires think and act in a specific way, which is widely different than, and against against the interests of, a common working person. There is a fundamental conflict of interest between a boss and their worker. You can observe this and they will actually say this if you ask them.

Yes some groups fail to act for their best interests because they are oppressed. A slave is obeying his master because it’s the best option for him under that circumstances. Maybe he’s not even aware of the possibility of other options. He may even say that his master is a very good individual and he’s proud to be his slave. None of these means that there is no conflict between those two classes, nor there are no classes.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#634

Post by cl-coder »

crnkofe wrote: post #433

To be fair I think its far easier to automate leadership jobs despite how they believe in greater self-worth. As a developer I keep running into problems that require some measure of creativity to solve or workaround. And regardless of how many years I've been in the industry I'm not running out of issues. They just keep getting more obscure. On the other hand leadership communication and problem resolution seem like…

Having worked at all sorts of roles, I would say that the owner is the only one not replaceable.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#635

Post by svieira »

api wrote: post #494
majewsky wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Understand human nature, incentives, and complex systems like markets and how they produce incentives. We do. "Class war" is just the succinct phrasing for "people who earn money through capital returns have vastly different incentives than people who earn money from their labor, and they also have the means to turn those interests into political leverage".

Except that when you comparison shop, you are helping construct those incentives. When you sell your labor you want it to cost as much as possible. When you buy the results of others labor you want them to be as cheap as possible. The system is circles, cycles, loops, two sided trades. It’s not one group of people unilaterally plotting things. When someone does try to do that they usually fail unless their plot happe…

Some thinkers believe you have to encourage the people in the system and change the system to make it harder to do the wrong thing. Some reading on the topic includes:

* The canonical book on the subject - The Servile State by Hilaire Belloc: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/64882

* https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/06/what-is-distr...

* https://practicaldistributism.com/distributism-basics/

And not directly related, but full of mineable thoughts, the papal encyclicals of the last 100 years on economy, including Rerum Novarum (https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/docum...), Quadragesimo Anno (https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docume...), Centesimus Annus (https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/d...), and the very latest Magnifica Humanitas (https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/docume...)

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#636

Post by svieira »

vintermann wrote: post #535
jeee1 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there are - the goal is to survive. This is hard coded into any entity. What’s the primary goal of any for profit business? To survive for eternity - going concern in perpetuity that is hopefully very valuable.

You're still not getting it. "Entity", "survival", these are still arbitrary or circularly defined terms. You decided what an entity is (i.e where one thing ends and a different thing begins) and what the essence which "survives" is (i.e. why it's a big deal whether there's a different chunk of nucleic acids similar but not identical to my own floating around 200 years from now). These ideas are not wrong, but they a…

> And nature doesn't come with purposes, it's all something we impose on it.

That is the presumption others are calling you out for. Things very clearly act appear to act with purpose, they just clearly don't provide it for themselves. You are presuming one solution to the problem (that appearance does not hold in reality), but there is another one.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#637

Post by KronisLV »

danesparza wrote: post #602
deltarholamda wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value-add for a meatbag CEO is the physical networking they do. They have to do executive functions as well, which could quite possibly be replaced with a well-trained LLM and even possibly exceed in overall quality. But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed; they can't run into Jim Executive of BigCorp Inc. in Vail and scheme up some big ne…

"But an LLM can't go to conferences; they can't have Top Secret Meetings where a merger or acquisition is discussed" Sure they can - especially when conferences are designed to have an API. And when more companies are run by an AI, they will absolutely have secret meetings to discuss a merger.

> Sure they can - especially when conferences are designed to have an API.

This sounds about as realistic as all of the crypto and blockchain people talking about distributed governance and such. The API part and agents pulling data is fine, I doubt they'd be running a business though, since something tells me that sort of thing is gatekept way more even from other people.

For a cool fictional portrayal of AI businesses, Altered Carbon touched upon it somewhat.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#638

Post by binary132 »

jameslk wrote: post #60
binary132 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re presuming here that CEOs cause companies to make profit instead of serving as a scapegoat for their often unavoidable market dynamics (at best).

In a 1-person company, who or what generates a profit?

“I am actually the CEO of my basement office business” was not the corporate topology I was addressing with my comment.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#639

Post by smaudet »

jezzamon wrote: post #567
onaclov2000 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being facetious of course, but didn't AI create their own reddit/chat rooms, what's stopping AI CEOs from "running into" other AI CEOs in other places?

The lack of barrier to entry is the problem. That barrier is highly desirable in this context (for better or worse)

The lack of imagination here is the issue.

I think AI bots are perfectly capable of replicating arbitrary barriers to entry, they can and will decide which (real or not) CEOs to interact with.

Re: CEO fired developers to make room for AI. Developers create open source AI CEO

#640

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

jayemar wrote: post #618
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate officers, including CEOs, have to be "natural persons" (legal jargon for flesh-and-blood humans) either directly by law or indirectly as a practical matter so the attempted turnabout falls flat on its face. Sun Tzu said to "know your enemy" and those who don't know the basics of how businesses and finance work have no hope of defeating them.

Couldn't "indirectly as a practical matter" be interpreted as what this project is attempting to challenge?

How so? Even in a jurisdiction where corporate officers aren't required to be a natural person, trying to have an AI CEO is like trying to make a cat/dog a CEO. As a practical matter, it is not a legal entity recognized as capable of entering into agreements so no government or other business will accept legal documents, contracts, etc. signed by the AI CEO or signed by a human claiming to act under the AI's (not valid) authority as CEO delegated to them. If I had to guess the latter would likely be considered fraud.

Unless some movement forms to get broad agreement that an AI instance can constitute a legal person (some kind of AI equivalent of corporate personhood, which nobody seems to like), this project is DOA.

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